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One D&D Grappling
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8740078" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm still trying to swim upstream and catch up on all the One D&D news, there is a lot, and a lot of general discussion. But I did want to take this chance to start a thread digging into one of the most significant changes to the rules in the set, in my opinion. </p><p></p><p>Grappling. </p><p></p><p>So, let's set the pieces on the table. Then I'll discuss some thoughts</p><p></p><p>Grapples are initiated by an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes are strength attacks against AC. On a hit you can deal 1+str mod damage, shove an opponent 5 ft or knock them prone (no save), or grapple them (no initial save) as long as the target is at no more than one size larger than you. The grapple DC is 8+str mod+prof. </p><p></p><p>The Grapplee (I'll call them the target from now on) suffers the grappled condition. The targets speed is 0, that speed cannot change. The Target's attacks have disadvantage against all targets except the Grappler (I'll call them the initiator from now on). The initiator can drag the Target, but suffers the slowed condition <strong><em>while moving</em></strong>, unless the target is tiny or two sizes smaller. The Target gets a strength or dex save at the end of their turn, which can end the grapple. It also ends if something removes them from reach (but not using their speed, which cannot change from 0) or if the Initiator is incapped.</p><p></p><p>The Slowed condition is also interesting, but rereading the Grapple my big concern is actually addressed, but I'll add it just the same. While slowed your movement if 2 ft of movement per foot you move (basically half speed), attacks against you have advantage, and you have disadvantage on dex saves. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now, I am already much happier than I was when I started this, because I thought the Initiator was slowed for the entire time the grapple was happening, which had a weird effect of giving the target advantage to hit them. That is not the case, but you do need to worry about attacks of opportunity from third-parties. Attacks which can be unarmed strikes that push you 5 ft, breaking the grapple. </p><p></p><p>So, thoughts. </p><p></p><p>The removal of skills from this is a double-edged sword I think. It does feel a little bad that athletics and acrobatics no longer apply. However, before this change much was talked about how the best grapplers were bards and rogues, because of expertise. And Rogues in particular were master grapplers because of Reliable Talent. And their actual strength scores didn't matter very much. Meanwhile, one of the worst grapplers in the game was the Monk, who just couldn't do it. They didn't focus on strength or have any way to boost Athletics. Meanwhile, with these changes, all it takes is a little extra language in Martial Arts to say "when you do an unarmed strike, you can replace strength with your dexterity" and then the save is based on dex for monks, making the unarmed combat expert the best at grappling. </p><p></p><p>The no save auto-grapple is a change I think I like. The thing is, the monsters could always choose to defend with athletics or acrobatics. Most monsters have either decent strength or decent dexterity, and so the chances of landing the initial grapple aren't very good. Also, with the large monsters having advantage, then you have to deal with even worse chances. </p><p></p><p>Adding to that, Grapples weren't useful, in my experience. They took an action to break, but no one ever bothered to actually take that action, because all grapple did was reduce your speed to 0. Once players realized that, they simply attacked the monster grappling them, or their neighbor, meanwhile, grappling takes a hand, which makes it difficult to continue fighting. Now, that hasn't changed, you are just going to attack the creature grappling you because you have disadvantage on all the others, but now the grapple is a condition that can end on a save, which means that they don't have to use that action. Because honestly, breaking a grapple with your action, that the enemy just reestablishes the next turn is the same as both of you skipping an action. </p><p></p><p>So, overall.... I think this is a good set of changes. I can see this being a far more dynamic system now than the previous one.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8740078, member: 6801228"] I'm still trying to swim upstream and catch up on all the One D&D news, there is a lot, and a lot of general discussion. But I did want to take this chance to start a thread digging into one of the most significant changes to the rules in the set, in my opinion. Grappling. So, let's set the pieces on the table. Then I'll discuss some thoughts Grapples are initiated by an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes are strength attacks against AC. On a hit you can deal 1+str mod damage, shove an opponent 5 ft or knock them prone (no save), or grapple them (no initial save) as long as the target is at no more than one size larger than you. The grapple DC is 8+str mod+prof. The Grapplee (I'll call them the target from now on) suffers the grappled condition. The targets speed is 0, that speed cannot change. The Target's attacks have disadvantage against all targets except the Grappler (I'll call them the initiator from now on). The initiator can drag the Target, but suffers the slowed condition [B][I]while moving[/I][/B], unless the target is tiny or two sizes smaller. The Target gets a strength or dex save at the end of their turn, which can end the grapple. It also ends if something removes them from reach (but not using their speed, which cannot change from 0) or if the Initiator is incapped. The Slowed condition is also interesting, but rereading the Grapple my big concern is actually addressed, but I'll add it just the same. While slowed your movement if 2 ft of movement per foot you move (basically half speed), attacks against you have advantage, and you have disadvantage on dex saves. Now, I am already much happier than I was when I started this, because I thought the Initiator was slowed for the entire time the grapple was happening, which had a weird effect of giving the target advantage to hit them. That is not the case, but you do need to worry about attacks of opportunity from third-parties. Attacks which can be unarmed strikes that push you 5 ft, breaking the grapple. So, thoughts. The removal of skills from this is a double-edged sword I think. It does feel a little bad that athletics and acrobatics no longer apply. However, before this change much was talked about how the best grapplers were bards and rogues, because of expertise. And Rogues in particular were master grapplers because of Reliable Talent. And their actual strength scores didn't matter very much. Meanwhile, one of the worst grapplers in the game was the Monk, who just couldn't do it. They didn't focus on strength or have any way to boost Athletics. Meanwhile, with these changes, all it takes is a little extra language in Martial Arts to say "when you do an unarmed strike, you can replace strength with your dexterity" and then the save is based on dex for monks, making the unarmed combat expert the best at grappling. The no save auto-grapple is a change I think I like. The thing is, the monsters could always choose to defend with athletics or acrobatics. Most monsters have either decent strength or decent dexterity, and so the chances of landing the initial grapple aren't very good. Also, with the large monsters having advantage, then you have to deal with even worse chances. Adding to that, Grapples weren't useful, in my experience. They took an action to break, but no one ever bothered to actually take that action, because all grapple did was reduce your speed to 0. Once players realized that, they simply attacked the monster grappling them, or their neighbor, meanwhile, grappling takes a hand, which makes it difficult to continue fighting. Now, that hasn't changed, you are just going to attack the creature grappling you because you have disadvantage on all the others, but now the grapple is a condition that can end on a save, which means that they don't have to use that action. Because honestly, breaking a grapple with your action, that the enemy just reestablishes the next turn is the same as both of you skipping an action. So, overall.... I think this is a good set of changes. I can see this being a far more dynamic system now than the previous one. [/QUOTE]
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