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<blockquote data-quote="Nifft" data-source="post: 3045167" data-attributes="member: 6562"><p>Let's drop the six attacks thing, since he can't do that any more.</p><p></p><p>Anyway. Let's look at a Human Rogue with some Aberrant feats from <u>Lords of Maddness</u>.</p><p></p><p>Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 16, Int: 14, Wis: 8, Cha: 8</p><p></p><p>1: Rogue 1 -- Aberrant Blood (+2 grapple), Durable Form (+2 hp per Ab. feat)</p><p>2: Rogue 2 -- Evasion</p><p>3: Rogue 3 -- Deepspawn (2 tentacle attacks, 1d4/1d4)</p><p>- - -</p><p>The Human has a better chance to hit (higher Str), better hit points (equal Con, plus six from feats), faster movement (30 ft. vs. 20 ft.), a better grapple check (+9 total, vs. +2 total), but they lose one attack. His primary attack can be at full attack bonus, and he can use a two-handed weapon. The Human's skills are going to make him an actually useful Rogue, too, while your Dralasite is going to have only 7 skills... up until he takes a Fighter level, when he gets one skill point. Yikes!</p><p></p><p>What is your guy doing for armor, anyway? His stand-and-deliver tactics won't last him very long, even with his nice Con bonus. Since his movement is going to suck, how does he keep people from using the withdraw action? (Or even the attack-once-and-move action?)</p><p></p><p>Anyway, let's bump the human up a level:</p><p></p><p>(was Rog3)</p><p>4: Ftr 1 -- Str +1, Power Attack</p><p>- - -</p><p>The human now has an option! He can charge and do some good damage on the first round of combat, even when he does not have initiative.</p><p></p><p>5: Rog 4 -- (skills)</p><p>6: Ftr 2 -- Combat Expertise, Improved Trip</p><p>7: Rog 5 -- (skills)</p><p>8: Rog 6 -- Str +1, (skills)</p><p></p><p>Meh, I'm gettting bored. Post your full build and I'll see if I can beat it at each level.</p><p></p><p>* * *</p><p></p><p>Let's check against a Lizardfolk Rogue (3 HD + 1 LA). I'm going to use the LoM feats again.</p><p></p><p>Base: Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 16, Int: 14, Wis: 8, Cha: 8</p><p>Modified: Str: 18, Dex: 14, Con: 18, Int: 12, Wis: 8, Cha: 8</p><p></p><p>1: Liz 1 -- Aberrant Blood (+2 grapple), Multiattack</p><p>2: Liz 2 --</p><p>3: (LA +1)</p><p>4: Rog 1 -- Durable Form (+2 hp per Ab. feat)</p><p></p><p>Fantastic hit points, fantastic natural armor, and three attacks! That's gonna leave a mark. Now let's advance him a bit:</p><p></p><p>5: Rog 2 -- (evasion, +1 Str)</p><p>6: Rog 3 -- +2d6 SA</p><p>7: Rog 4 -- Deepspawn (2 tentacles 1d4/1d4, +2 grapple) <-- FIVE attacks!</p><p>8: Rog 5 -- +3d6 SA</p><p>9: Rog 6 -- (+1 Str)</p><p>10: Rog 7 -- +4d6 SA, Power Attack</p><p></p><p>* * *</p><p></p><p></p><p>Anyway, my point is: I think there are probably better ways to get the same trick ("if you stand right here, between me and my friend, you are dead.") (Lizardman is hardly considered a broken race, and they do this really quite well.)</p><p></p><p>The low base move of the Dralasite combined with its inability to pull this trick in armor (unlike the lizardman) mean that you will be the quintessential Rogue: very dangerous, but very fragile.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I would like to see your numbers, though. I'll provide more detail on my "acid test" builds, too.</p><p></p><p>Thanks, -- N</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nifft, post: 3045167, member: 6562"] Let's drop the six attacks thing, since he can't do that any more. Anyway. Let's look at a Human Rogue with some Aberrant feats from [u]Lords of Maddness[/u]. Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 16, Int: 14, Wis: 8, Cha: 8 1: Rogue 1 -- Aberrant Blood (+2 grapple), Durable Form (+2 hp per Ab. feat) 2: Rogue 2 -- Evasion 3: Rogue 3 -- Deepspawn (2 tentacle attacks, 1d4/1d4) - - - The Human has a better chance to hit (higher Str), better hit points (equal Con, plus six from feats), faster movement (30 ft. vs. 20 ft.), a better grapple check (+9 total, vs. +2 total), but they lose one attack. His primary attack can be at full attack bonus, and he can use a two-handed weapon. The Human's skills are going to make him an actually useful Rogue, too, while your Dralasite is going to have only 7 skills... up until he takes a Fighter level, when he gets one skill point. Yikes! What is your guy doing for armor, anyway? His stand-and-deliver tactics won't last him very long, even with his nice Con bonus. Since his movement is going to suck, how does he keep people from using the withdraw action? (Or even the attack-once-and-move action?) Anyway, let's bump the human up a level: (was Rog3) 4: Ftr 1 -- Str +1, Power Attack - - - The human now has an option! He can charge and do some good damage on the first round of combat, even when he does not have initiative. 5: Rog 4 -- (skills) 6: Ftr 2 -- Combat Expertise, Improved Trip 7: Rog 5 -- (skills) 8: Rog 6 -- Str +1, (skills) Meh, I'm gettting bored. Post your full build and I'll see if I can beat it at each level. * * * Let's check against a Lizardfolk Rogue (3 HD + 1 LA). I'm going to use the LoM feats again. Base: Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 16, Int: 14, Wis: 8, Cha: 8 Modified: Str: 18, Dex: 14, Con: 18, Int: 12, Wis: 8, Cha: 8 1: Liz 1 -- Aberrant Blood (+2 grapple), Multiattack 2: Liz 2 -- 3: (LA +1) 4: Rog 1 -- Durable Form (+2 hp per Ab. feat) Fantastic hit points, fantastic natural armor, and three attacks! That's gonna leave a mark. Now let's advance him a bit: 5: Rog 2 -- (evasion, +1 Str) 6: Rog 3 -- +2d6 SA 7: Rog 4 -- Deepspawn (2 tentacles 1d4/1d4, +2 grapple) <-- FIVE attacks! 8: Rog 5 -- +3d6 SA 9: Rog 6 -- (+1 Str) 10: Rog 7 -- +4d6 SA, Power Attack * * * Anyway, my point is: I think there are probably better ways to get the same trick ("if you stand right here, between me and my friend, you are dead.") (Lizardman is hardly considered a broken race, and they do this really quite well.) The low base move of the Dralasite combined with its inability to pull this trick in armor (unlike the lizardman) mean that you will be the quintessential Rogue: very dangerous, but very fragile. I would like to see your numbers, though. I'll provide more detail on my "acid test" builds, too. Thanks, -- N [/QUOTE]
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