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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Paizo Announces Starfinder 2nd Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9086144" data-attributes="member: 7026617"><p>I kind of think it probably is (though it doesn't have to have the tight PF2e math necessarily, which may make it worse, but I think that's an artifact of actually having levels that really mean something and go that high; but then I'm not exceptionally a fan of level based systems so that may show through there). I only know three games in the D&D family that seem to have working CR, and its true to one extent or another in all three (PF2e, D&D4e, and 13th Age. Its a little less pronounced in the last because 13th Age has level compression and has moved much farther away from certain D&Disms than the other two, which may bother someone up-front, but once they get over that will probably bother them less in this particular area. I'd be willing to be pointed at a case where encounter calculation math that works doesn't produce some of this, but if so, its managed to stay below my radar (most of the D&D sphere seems either consider balanced encounters antithetical or just throw up its hands about it and tell everyone to eyeball--which, to be fair, latter is what <em>most</em> games do, but it doesn't make much of an argument for actually having encounter calculations work while producing what you and some others want at the same time).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know what to tell you man, but that really doesn't fit my experience with anything but (to a degree) solo battles, and I've played the game up to 20th once and (checks current level) 14th a second time now. I'm not going to deny your experience here, but there's obviously <em>something</em> that makes a big difference between what you've seen and what I have. Are you playing with a big group of PCs by any chance? (That's the only thing I can think of that might, and to be clear, its a shot in the dark).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, I only rarely saw anyone that far down, and I'd have to think if I ever did for the whole group. If it happened it happened a couple times in two campaigns. And I'd probably have noticed at least in one of the three campaigns since I've played, respectively, a sword-and-board Fighter, a Champion/Bard (both of whom were pretty much the group tanks) and a Gunslinger (who only has two speeds: untouched and badly chewed up (the latter on the rare case when she has actively annoyed an opponent with good mobility).</p><p></p><p>This is what makes this so weird to me; its like we're talking almost entirely different games. Admittedly the middle game we were playing hybrids, but we were also in Age of Ashes which is notoriously unkind, so...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9086144, member: 7026617"] I kind of think it probably is (though it doesn't have to have the tight PF2e math necessarily, which may make it worse, but I think that's an artifact of actually having levels that really mean something and go that high; but then I'm not exceptionally a fan of level based systems so that may show through there). I only know three games in the D&D family that seem to have working CR, and its true to one extent or another in all three (PF2e, D&D4e, and 13th Age. Its a little less pronounced in the last because 13th Age has level compression and has moved much farther away from certain D&Disms than the other two, which may bother someone up-front, but once they get over that will probably bother them less in this particular area. I'd be willing to be pointed at a case where encounter calculation math that works doesn't produce some of this, but if so, its managed to stay below my radar (most of the D&D sphere seems either consider balanced encounters antithetical or just throw up its hands about it and tell everyone to eyeball--which, to be fair, latter is what [I]most[/I] games do, but it doesn't make much of an argument for actually having encounter calculations work while producing what you and some others want at the same time). I don't know what to tell you man, but that really doesn't fit my experience with anything but (to a degree) solo battles, and I've played the game up to 20th once and (checks current level) 14th a second time now. I'm not going to deny your experience here, but there's obviously [I]something[/I] that makes a big difference between what you've seen and what I have. Are you playing with a big group of PCs by any chance? (That's the only thing I can think of that might, and to be clear, its a shot in the dark). See, I only rarely saw anyone that far down, and I'd have to think if I ever did for the whole group. If it happened it happened a couple times in two campaigns. And I'd probably have noticed at least in one of the three campaigns since I've played, respectively, a sword-and-board Fighter, a Champion/Bard (both of whom were pretty much the group tanks) and a Gunslinger (who only has two speeds: untouched and badly chewed up (the latter on the rare case when she has actively annoyed an opponent with good mobility). This is what makes this so weird to me; its like we're talking almost entirely different games. Admittedly the middle game we were playing hybrids, but we were also in Age of Ashes which is notoriously unkind, so... [/QUOTE]
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Paizo Announces Starfinder 2nd Edition
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