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Paizo's Stephen Radney-MacFarland Previews The Rogue Class For Pathfinder 2nd Edition!
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7739591" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>I hope you’re right about this being the reason they didn’t show anything particularly interesting for the rogue, and not just that all the rogue has is Sneak Attack and skills.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But that only fixes the math of high level. It doesn’t fix the fact that it can easily take a year of real-life time to get there. I don’t want to have to spend 8 months doing nothing more engaging in combat than maneuvering to the right position to make my damage output not suck before I can actually start applying some interesting debuffs. I’m all for the general idea of spreading the cognitive load of a class out over a few levels so new players don’t get overwhelmed, but Debilitating Strikes seem to be the one thing they’ve shown that gives Rogues actual choices to make in combat. Otherwise it’s just auto-pilot: can you get Sneak Attack? If yes, Attack. If no, attempt to move to a flanking position (or whatever circumstance your Feats allow you to Sneak Attack under.) Repeat until you’ve earned enough experience to actually start getting choices to make. The amount of time Rogues should be forced to spend playing that way should be as small as possible. If the Fighter is getting to choose between Power Attack, that Attack that lets them frighten the target on a hit for two actions, or that attack that lets you slow an enemy with a bow attack by 6th level, a rogue should be choosing which Debilitating Strike to apply at around the same time.</p><p></p><p>If they want to put boring Feats like Shield bonus to Reflex at 14th level, I don’t really care because I’ll probably never play one campaign for that long. But I shouldn’t have to wait until my character is already half way to 20 before getting the first Feat that gives me something cool to do.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Those are interesting build choices, but they don’t give you interesting choices to make from turn to turn. Ancestry and Skill Feats might provide some interesting in-the-moment choices, but it sucks that the Class has to rely on those alone when other classes can get the same Feats <em>and</em> get interesting choices from their Class Feats.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, but the Fighter gets choices of what to do with those actions. Charge and attack a second time, or move regularly and Power Attack? Or charge and raise shield? Raise shield and Power Attack, or Power Attack and regular attack? In place of that, the Rogue seems to get a simple heuristic: Use the smallest number of actions as necessary to enable you to use Sneak Attack. Spend all remaining actions attacking as many times as possible.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7739591, member: 6779196"] I hope you’re right about this being the reason they didn’t show anything particularly interesting for the rogue, and not just that all the rogue has is Sneak Attack and skills. But that only fixes the math of high level. It doesn’t fix the fact that it can easily take a year of real-life time to get there. I don’t want to have to spend 8 months doing nothing more engaging in combat than maneuvering to the right position to make my damage output not suck before I can actually start applying some interesting debuffs. I’m all for the general idea of spreading the cognitive load of a class out over a few levels so new players don’t get overwhelmed, but Debilitating Strikes seem to be the one thing they’ve shown that gives Rogues actual choices to make in combat. Otherwise it’s just auto-pilot: can you get Sneak Attack? If yes, Attack. If no, attempt to move to a flanking position (or whatever circumstance your Feats allow you to Sneak Attack under.) Repeat until you’ve earned enough experience to actually start getting choices to make. The amount of time Rogues should be forced to spend playing that way should be as small as possible. If the Fighter is getting to choose between Power Attack, that Attack that lets them frighten the target on a hit for two actions, or that attack that lets you slow an enemy with a bow attack by 6th level, a rogue should be choosing which Debilitating Strike to apply at around the same time. If they want to put boring Feats like Shield bonus to Reflex at 14th level, I don’t really care because I’ll probably never play one campaign for that long. But I shouldn’t have to wait until my character is already half way to 20 before getting the first Feat that gives me something cool to do. Those are interesting build choices, but they don’t give you interesting choices to make from turn to turn. Ancestry and Skill Feats might provide some interesting in-the-moment choices, but it sucks that the Class has to rely on those alone when other classes can get the same Feats [i]and[/i] get interesting choices from their Class Feats. Sure, but the Fighter gets choices of what to do with those actions. Charge and attack a second time, or move regularly and Power Attack? Or charge and raise shield? Raise shield and Power Attack, or Power Attack and regular attack? In place of that, the Rogue seems to get a simple heuristic: Use the smallest number of actions as necessary to enable you to use Sneak Attack. Spend all remaining actions attacking as many times as possible. [/QUOTE]
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Paizo's Stephen Radney-MacFarland Previews The Rogue Class For Pathfinder 2nd Edition!
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