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paradox42's crazy cosmology
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<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 5083797" data-attributes="member: 29746"><p><strong>Deities</strong></p><p></p><p>So, back during the era of 2nd Edition, I put together a scheme that used <em>The Primal Order</em> combined with my own notions of how the gods in my (central) cosmos fit together. Giving deities for my main Material world Spheres, for 2nd Edition Priest classes, and coming up with a specialty Priest class for each deity, took some time, but I found the world well-put-together and satisfying. The world's gods ended at the top, the three Greater Gods, all of whom were gods of Magic and thus meant to represent how important the power of Magic was in my world's history. I knew, though, that certain very old deities and greater powers existed in the wider multiverse, which were not yet truly powerful enough to be called "Overgods-" so I came up with a few ideas to describe those. More on those after I explain about Portfolios in the 3.X/IH edition of my setting.</p><p></p><p>Enter 3rd Edition. Now, instead of specialty priests, we had one Cleric class that gained special powers from the two Domains chosen at 1st level (and set forever thereafter). More distressingly, for translating my list of deities to 3E, was that each god was only supposed to have about 4 Domains! I found both of these situations intolerable, as so much character and uniqueness of the religions I'd made for the old edition would be lost. So I changed it. Noting that Clerics were among the more powerful classes, if not the single most powerful class, I tweaked it for my game setting to bring it more in line with the old Specialty Priests of 2nd Edition. In particular, it was clear that the only granted powers a Cleric got- beyond the basic class powers of Turn Undead, Channel Energy and spellcasting- came from the Domains. Well, in 2nd Edition, Specialty Priest classes were typically structured to give a series of increasingly powerful granted powers as the character gained levels. So, <strong>my</strong> 3E Clerics started the game with only <strong>one</strong> Domain instead of 2. But they gained another Domain at 5th level, bringing with it a new granted power and selection of spells. Then another at 10th level, and then 15th, and so on. This scheme dovetailed neatly with what I saw as the biggest shortcoming of the gods themselves under 3E- that their number of Domains was too few to be properly expressive of the god and its religion. So, I gave my gods a whole slew of Domains, each one having (typically) between 8 and 11 to offer their Clerics- though I kept the old Portfolios I'd given them during 2E and kept the concept of Portfolios separated from Domains. I'll also mention, before moving on, that the gods of my world were structured such that the "god type" (that is, Demi-, Lesser, Intermediate, or Greater) was easy to tell by the number of Portfolios each deity had; Demigods only had one, Lessers had two, Intermediates had three, and the three Greater Gods all had four (though since every one of them was a god of Magic, the real difference between them came from the other three each had).</p><p></p><p>Along came the IH, which was based in large part on the 3rd Edition <em>Deities & Demigods</em> and had no particular ties to 2nd Edition. Obviously, this structure of every single god having two Portfolios, and furthermore that Portfolios determined what Domains a deity could offer its Clerics, was at cross purposes to my carefully-worked-out scheme. The problem went on the back burner while my games ran through the upper levels into Epic, but when the PCs started going for godhood themselves, I obviously needed to think of a solution, and fast!</p><p></p><p>Thus came the concept of Primary and Secondary Portfolios. In this new scheme, a deity has two or more <strong>Primary</strong> Portfolios, which represent what the god "is" to mortals: that is, Bast (in my world, at least) is goddess of Pleasure, Cats, and Stealth. So, she has all three of those as Primary Portfolios. However, Bast <strong>also</strong> has many more Domains than those to grant her Clerics- these are her <strong>Secondary</strong> Portfolios. She's associated with the concepts those Portfolios represent, but she isn't (for example) "Goddess of Luck" or "Goddess of Trickery" the way she is "Goddess of Cats." For IH purposes, what this means is that a deity's full list of Portfolios (both Secondary and Primary) gives you the list of Domains that that deity's Clerics can access, but <em>only the Primary Portfolios</em> grant the deity the powers and weaknesses listed in the IH Portfolio chapter (or format, if your Portfolio doesn't happen to appear in Ascension proper).</p><p></p><p>When PCs started ascending, it was further decreed (since Demigods of my world were only supposed to have one Primary to fit the pantheon) that characters would get two Portfolios to start with, both of which would be Primary, but <strong>only one</strong> of the two would be associated with the god in mortals' eyes for religious purposes. Typically, the "religion Portfolio" would be the one the deity picked upon ascension, while the "universe-granted" one would be the one mortals ignored. One PC, for example, became the goddess of Catastrophe and Magic, but mortals ignored the (universe-granted) Magic side in favor of the Catastrophe side- since that was what the player had quested to become goddess of in the first place (also, the existing trio of Greater Gods of Magic would likely become miffed if some upstart Quasi-Deity started muscling in on their turf).</p><p></p><p>This left the question of how the existing gods got all the Portfolios (Primary and Secondary) that they offered their Clerics. Well, given that I already had all deities automatically offering their associated Alignment Domains, for example a CG god would have both Chaos and Good, it was obvious that the PC gods would automatically get those upon ascension as well- as Secondary Portfolios. But how to get the rest? This was when I took a new look at the idea of Portfolio quests: what happens in core Ascension, I thought to myself, if an existing deity goes on a Portfolio quest, even though he already <strong>has</strong> his two Portfolios? For my setting, I decided, <strong>this</strong> would be how deities acquire Secondary Portfolios- just fulfill the Portfolio quest condition, and you can take the Portfolio as Secondary if you want it. This left the question of how a deity acquired new Primary Portfolios when achieving higher tiers, since all of my Intermediates had three Primaries in my scheme, and Greater had four. Ascension gave me the solution, in the form of the Extra Portfolio Cosmic power. For my game its function was altered slightly such that a deity could use it in two ways: first, to convert an existing Secondary Portfolio of the deity's into a Primary, or second, to convert an existing Primary from a Single version to a Double version (it was decided that a Double Portfolio would count as taking up two "Portfolio slots" for balance reasons). Later on, after all players had ascended, a couple of my more power-gamer players noted that the number of Secondary Portfolios could quickly become a point of breaking the system if not managed somehow, so we added the last plank to this new Portfolio platform: a deity is only allowed to have <strong>X total Portfolios</strong> (both Primary and Secondary)<strong>, where X = Divine Rank + 2.</strong> This had a convenient out for me as a DM, too, because I could now at-a-glance judge the relative power of two gods from my original pantheon who happened to be of the same tier- for example, Bast and Geb (god of Earth, Crops, and Mountains)- just by counting up the number of Domains each one offered.</p><p></p><p>This last point was particularly important, because, as I've discussed elsewhere, I went away from the simplified Ascension system of setting every deity of a given tier at the same number of Divine Ranks. It is, in other words, not the case that every Demigod of my setting has 6 DR; many have just 5. Likewise, a Lesser God might have 7 or 8. In fact, I decided that it might make a more satisfying divine game to have the number of DR a character had be something like a parallel system of levels: the number of QP you have would determine how many DR you had within a given tier, assuming you could meet the other requirements to gain that tier in the first place.</p><p></p><p>And so we come to my table of divinity: the list I made to show how many HD are required to gain a given divine tier and its associated Ascension template, as well as how many QP are required to attain a given DR. Where the table below differs from Ascension, in the number of DR a deity of a given tier actually has (for example, if a Demigod has only 5 DR instead of 6), one simply adjusts the appropriate numbers given in the template accordingly; thus, a 5-DR Demigod has exactly the powers given in Ascension for a 6-DR Demigod, except that he only gets 5 Divine Abilities, a +5 Divine bonus instead of +6, only +10 to each ability score instead of +12, and 5 <em>Wishes</em> per day instead of 6. Also, said 5-DR Demigod has a Level Adjustment of only +25, rather than +30 (each DR counts for a +5 LA). I don't have an HTML version of this table, unfortunately, but the text version is quite readable anyway, so I'll just copy and paste:</p><p></p><p>Disciple (DR 1): 5 HD, 10 QP.</p><p>Prophet (DR 2): 15 HD, 100 QP.</p><p>------------------------------------------</p><p>Hero-Deity (DR 3): 40 HD, 1000 QP.</p><p>Quasi-Deity (DR 4): 70 HD, 10,000 QP.</p><p>Demi-deity (DR 5): 100 HD, 60,000 QP.</p><p>Demi-deity (DR 6): 100 HD, 100,000 QP.</p><p>Lesser Deity (DR 7): 200 HD, 600,000 QP.</p><p>Lesser Deity (DR 8): 200 HD, 1,000,000 QP.</p><p>Lesser Deity (DR 9): 200 HD, 2,000,000 QP.</p><p>Lesser Deity (DR 10): 200 HD, 4,000,000 QP.</p><p>Lesser Deity (DR 11): 200 HD, 6,000,000 QP.</p><p>Lesser Deity (DR 12): 200 HD, 8,000,000 QP.</p><p>Intermediate Deity (DR 13): 300 HD, 10,000,000 QP.</p><p>Intermediate Deity (DR 14): 300 HD, 16,000,000 QP.</p><p>Intermediate Deity (DR 15): 300 HD, 28,000,000 QP.</p><p>Intermediate Deity (DR 16): 300 HD, 46,000,000 QP.</p><p>Intermediate Deity (DR 17): 300 HD, 64,000,000 QP.</p><p>Intermediate Deity (DR 18): 300 HD, 82,000,000 QP.</p><p>Greater Deity (19 DR): 400 HD, 100,000,000 QP.</p><p>Greater Deity (20 DR): 400 HD, 160,000,000 QP.</p><p>Greater Deity (21 DR): 400 HD, 280,000,000 QP.</p><p>Greater Deity (22 DR): 400 HD, 460,000,000 QP.</p><p>Greater Deity (23 DR): 400 HD, 640,000,000 QP.</p><p>Greater Deity (24 DR): 400 HD, 820,000,000 QP.</p><p></p><p>Left out of this, many readers will note, is the fact that my scheme features tiers of godhood <strong>above</strong> Greater God- though as you can see already, my Greater Gods can actually reach the DR level that core Ascension sets for Elder Ones. This post is long enough that I'm going to just explain about Elder Gods and Incarnations in the next post. It's just worth noting here, getting back to the issue of Primary Portfolios, that I had each divine tier mandating your maximum number of Primaries- Lesser and below are capped at 2 (with the further proviso noted above regarding the religions of Demigods), Intermediates can have 3, Greater can have 4. If you have a Double Portfolio (which means automatically that it's one of your Primaries), then it counts as two, so a Greater God with a Double Portfolio can only have two other Primaries, not three.</p><p></p><p>It is also worth noting, before I go on, that if a divine character gains a number of QP high enough to put him or her at a new tier (for example, a Lesser Goddess getting to 10 million or higher QP), but the character does not yet meet the <strong>Hit Die</strong> requirement of the next higher template, then that character is capped at the current tier until gaining the necessary number of HD. This actually happened a few times to divine PCs during my divine games. We gave PCs an out for this, though: because there's a convenient conversion factor between XP and GP for item crafting purposes (namely, that each XP is worth 5 GP), and also because in my RP behind-the-scenes explanation for what QP actually represent (more on that in the post on "standard physics"), there should be a way to convert QP to XP and vice versa- if you have an excess of either one. To convert QP to XP, you spend 1 QP and get 1 XP; to convert the other way, you spend 25 XP to get 1 QP. This was meant to partly bring in the fact that when you spend QP, you lose 90% of it- obviously when converting between QP and XP the factor is only 80%. But we went with it, and liked it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 5083797, member: 29746"] [b]Deities[/b] So, back during the era of 2nd Edition, I put together a scheme that used [I]The Primal Order[/I] combined with my own notions of how the gods in my (central) cosmos fit together. Giving deities for my main Material world Spheres, for 2nd Edition Priest classes, and coming up with a specialty Priest class for each deity, took some time, but I found the world well-put-together and satisfying. The world's gods ended at the top, the three Greater Gods, all of whom were gods of Magic and thus meant to represent how important the power of Magic was in my world's history. I knew, though, that certain very old deities and greater powers existed in the wider multiverse, which were not yet truly powerful enough to be called "Overgods-" so I came up with a few ideas to describe those. More on those after I explain about Portfolios in the 3.X/IH edition of my setting. Enter 3rd Edition. Now, instead of specialty priests, we had one Cleric class that gained special powers from the two Domains chosen at 1st level (and set forever thereafter). More distressingly, for translating my list of deities to 3E, was that each god was only supposed to have about 4 Domains! I found both of these situations intolerable, as so much character and uniqueness of the religions I'd made for the old edition would be lost. So I changed it. Noting that Clerics were among the more powerful classes, if not the single most powerful class, I tweaked it for my game setting to bring it more in line with the old Specialty Priests of 2nd Edition. In particular, it was clear that the only granted powers a Cleric got- beyond the basic class powers of Turn Undead, Channel Energy and spellcasting- came from the Domains. Well, in 2nd Edition, Specialty Priest classes were typically structured to give a series of increasingly powerful granted powers as the character gained levels. So, [B]my[/B] 3E Clerics started the game with only [B]one[/B] Domain instead of 2. But they gained another Domain at 5th level, bringing with it a new granted power and selection of spells. Then another at 10th level, and then 15th, and so on. This scheme dovetailed neatly with what I saw as the biggest shortcoming of the gods themselves under 3E- that their number of Domains was too few to be properly expressive of the god and its religion. So, I gave my gods a whole slew of Domains, each one having (typically) between 8 and 11 to offer their Clerics- though I kept the old Portfolios I'd given them during 2E and kept the concept of Portfolios separated from Domains. I'll also mention, before moving on, that the gods of my world were structured such that the "god type" (that is, Demi-, Lesser, Intermediate, or Greater) was easy to tell by the number of Portfolios each deity had; Demigods only had one, Lessers had two, Intermediates had three, and the three Greater Gods all had four (though since every one of them was a god of Magic, the real difference between them came from the other three each had). Along came the IH, which was based in large part on the 3rd Edition [I]Deities & Demigods[/I] and had no particular ties to 2nd Edition. Obviously, this structure of every single god having two Portfolios, and furthermore that Portfolios determined what Domains a deity could offer its Clerics, was at cross purposes to my carefully-worked-out scheme. The problem went on the back burner while my games ran through the upper levels into Epic, but when the PCs started going for godhood themselves, I obviously needed to think of a solution, and fast! Thus came the concept of Primary and Secondary Portfolios. In this new scheme, a deity has two or more [B]Primary[/B] Portfolios, which represent what the god "is" to mortals: that is, Bast (in my world, at least) is goddess of Pleasure, Cats, and Stealth. So, she has all three of those as Primary Portfolios. However, Bast [B]also[/B] has many more Domains than those to grant her Clerics- these are her [B]Secondary[/B] Portfolios. She's associated with the concepts those Portfolios represent, but she isn't (for example) "Goddess of Luck" or "Goddess of Trickery" the way she is "Goddess of Cats." For IH purposes, what this means is that a deity's full list of Portfolios (both Secondary and Primary) gives you the list of Domains that that deity's Clerics can access, but [I]only the Primary Portfolios[/I] grant the deity the powers and weaknesses listed in the IH Portfolio chapter (or format, if your Portfolio doesn't happen to appear in Ascension proper). When PCs started ascending, it was further decreed (since Demigods of my world were only supposed to have one Primary to fit the pantheon) that characters would get two Portfolios to start with, both of which would be Primary, but [B]only one[/B] of the two would be associated with the god in mortals' eyes for religious purposes. Typically, the "religion Portfolio" would be the one the deity picked upon ascension, while the "universe-granted" one would be the one mortals ignored. One PC, for example, became the goddess of Catastrophe and Magic, but mortals ignored the (universe-granted) Magic side in favor of the Catastrophe side- since that was what the player had quested to become goddess of in the first place (also, the existing trio of Greater Gods of Magic would likely become miffed if some upstart Quasi-Deity started muscling in on their turf). This left the question of how the existing gods got all the Portfolios (Primary and Secondary) that they offered their Clerics. Well, given that I already had all deities automatically offering their associated Alignment Domains, for example a CG god would have both Chaos and Good, it was obvious that the PC gods would automatically get those upon ascension as well- as Secondary Portfolios. But how to get the rest? This was when I took a new look at the idea of Portfolio quests: what happens in core Ascension, I thought to myself, if an existing deity goes on a Portfolio quest, even though he already [B]has[/B] his two Portfolios? For my setting, I decided, [B]this[/B] would be how deities acquire Secondary Portfolios- just fulfill the Portfolio quest condition, and you can take the Portfolio as Secondary if you want it. This left the question of how a deity acquired new Primary Portfolios when achieving higher tiers, since all of my Intermediates had three Primaries in my scheme, and Greater had four. Ascension gave me the solution, in the form of the Extra Portfolio Cosmic power. For my game its function was altered slightly such that a deity could use it in two ways: first, to convert an existing Secondary Portfolio of the deity's into a Primary, or second, to convert an existing Primary from a Single version to a Double version (it was decided that a Double Portfolio would count as taking up two "Portfolio slots" for balance reasons). Later on, after all players had ascended, a couple of my more power-gamer players noted that the number of Secondary Portfolios could quickly become a point of breaking the system if not managed somehow, so we added the last plank to this new Portfolio platform: a deity is only allowed to have [B]X total Portfolios[/B] (both Primary and Secondary)[B], where X = Divine Rank + 2.[/B] This had a convenient out for me as a DM, too, because I could now at-a-glance judge the relative power of two gods from my original pantheon who happened to be of the same tier- for example, Bast and Geb (god of Earth, Crops, and Mountains)- just by counting up the number of Domains each one offered. This last point was particularly important, because, as I've discussed elsewhere, I went away from the simplified Ascension system of setting every deity of a given tier at the same number of Divine Ranks. It is, in other words, not the case that every Demigod of my setting has 6 DR; many have just 5. Likewise, a Lesser God might have 7 or 8. In fact, I decided that it might make a more satisfying divine game to have the number of DR a character had be something like a parallel system of levels: the number of QP you have would determine how many DR you had within a given tier, assuming you could meet the other requirements to gain that tier in the first place. And so we come to my table of divinity: the list I made to show how many HD are required to gain a given divine tier and its associated Ascension template, as well as how many QP are required to attain a given DR. Where the table below differs from Ascension, in the number of DR a deity of a given tier actually has (for example, if a Demigod has only 5 DR instead of 6), one simply adjusts the appropriate numbers given in the template accordingly; thus, a 5-DR Demigod has exactly the powers given in Ascension for a 6-DR Demigod, except that he only gets 5 Divine Abilities, a +5 Divine bonus instead of +6, only +10 to each ability score instead of +12, and 5 [I]Wishes[/I] per day instead of 6. Also, said 5-DR Demigod has a Level Adjustment of only +25, rather than +30 (each DR counts for a +5 LA). I don't have an HTML version of this table, unfortunately, but the text version is quite readable anyway, so I'll just copy and paste: Disciple (DR 1): 5 HD, 10 QP. Prophet (DR 2): 15 HD, 100 QP. ------------------------------------------ Hero-Deity (DR 3): 40 HD, 1000 QP. Quasi-Deity (DR 4): 70 HD, 10,000 QP. Demi-deity (DR 5): 100 HD, 60,000 QP. Demi-deity (DR 6): 100 HD, 100,000 QP. Lesser Deity (DR 7): 200 HD, 600,000 QP. Lesser Deity (DR 8): 200 HD, 1,000,000 QP. Lesser Deity (DR 9): 200 HD, 2,000,000 QP. Lesser Deity (DR 10): 200 HD, 4,000,000 QP. Lesser Deity (DR 11): 200 HD, 6,000,000 QP. Lesser Deity (DR 12): 200 HD, 8,000,000 QP. Intermediate Deity (DR 13): 300 HD, 10,000,000 QP. Intermediate Deity (DR 14): 300 HD, 16,000,000 QP. Intermediate Deity (DR 15): 300 HD, 28,000,000 QP. Intermediate Deity (DR 16): 300 HD, 46,000,000 QP. Intermediate Deity (DR 17): 300 HD, 64,000,000 QP. Intermediate Deity (DR 18): 300 HD, 82,000,000 QP. Greater Deity (19 DR): 400 HD, 100,000,000 QP. Greater Deity (20 DR): 400 HD, 160,000,000 QP. Greater Deity (21 DR): 400 HD, 280,000,000 QP. Greater Deity (22 DR): 400 HD, 460,000,000 QP. Greater Deity (23 DR): 400 HD, 640,000,000 QP. Greater Deity (24 DR): 400 HD, 820,000,000 QP. Left out of this, many readers will note, is the fact that my scheme features tiers of godhood [B]above[/B] Greater God- though as you can see already, my Greater Gods can actually reach the DR level that core Ascension sets for Elder Ones. This post is long enough that I'm going to just explain about Elder Gods and Incarnations in the next post. It's just worth noting here, getting back to the issue of Primary Portfolios, that I had each divine tier mandating your maximum number of Primaries- Lesser and below are capped at 2 (with the further proviso noted above regarding the religions of Demigods), Intermediates can have 3, Greater can have 4. If you have a Double Portfolio (which means automatically that it's one of your Primaries), then it counts as two, so a Greater God with a Double Portfolio can only have two other Primaries, not three. It is also worth noting, before I go on, that if a divine character gains a number of QP high enough to put him or her at a new tier (for example, a Lesser Goddess getting to 10 million or higher QP), but the character does not yet meet the [B]Hit Die[/B] requirement of the next higher template, then that character is capped at the current tier until gaining the necessary number of HD. This actually happened a few times to divine PCs during my divine games. We gave PCs an out for this, though: because there's a convenient conversion factor between XP and GP for item crafting purposes (namely, that each XP is worth 5 GP), and also because in my RP behind-the-scenes explanation for what QP actually represent (more on that in the post on "standard physics"), there should be a way to convert QP to XP and vice versa- if you have an excess of either one. To convert QP to XP, you spend 1 QP and get 1 XP; to convert the other way, you spend 25 XP to get 1 QP. This was meant to partly bring in the fact that when you spend QP, you lose 90% of it- obviously when converting between QP and XP the factor is only 80%. But we went with it, and liked it. [/QUOTE]
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