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Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8029995" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>We've had a longish break, but are set to play this Sunday. Here's an observation regarding a fairly uncommon occurrence (AFAIK) in the official adventure paths:</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="Extinction Curse chapter 8"]</p><p>This discusses the final encounter of level 8, the confrontation with Mistress Dusklight. Specifically, the following two topics:</p><p></p><p>a) the pacing of encounters</p><p>b) fighting a low-offense high-defense boss without bogging down the action</p><p></p><p>At least to my (limited) knowledge, Paizo isn't experimenting much with forcing the players to face several encounters in a row, as a single block. But unless the GM is both observant (or reads this) and lenient, the ending of the Celestial Menagerie map can easily cram three encounters into one.</p><p></p><p>I'm not talking about facing all three encounters' worth of enemies at the same time (since the design of PF2 basically disallows that) - I'm talking about not getting the customary rest period in-between each one. That is, what I'm talking about is the potential for starting a new encounter at less than full health unless you have a Cleric et al in your party that is ready to use up valuable combat healing (even though the party is technically between combats). I'm talking about how this change of pace might surprise a party accustomed to being allowed rest between encounters, how this might catch players that have been weaned off their usual caution through seven levels where combat healing is never needed <em>after</em> a fight. Maybe your players won't have a problem with this - this discussion is for the GMs who think theirs might.</p><p></p><p>The adventure is written with the same assumption as always: that it is the party that sets the pace by opening the door to Dusklight's Quarters. However, I find it entirely unrealistic that the PCs should be allowed to face Deputy Stallit, and then take the customary 20-80 minutes of heal-up time before Mistress Dusklight intervenes. Therefore I will likely replace the completely closed wall between D12 Foyer and D13 Dusklight's Quarters with one with "holes" or small windows in it. Big enough for spellcasting (and arrows, I guess) to pass through, but not big enough for characters to just run through. This wall is hidden behind the curtains or drapery of the foyer, but Mistress Dusklight can tug on a rope to have them fall to the ground. This should force the party to either open the door or flee back into the maze. They can't just blithely sit down to Treat Wounds, since they're assaulted by Mistress Dusklight's ranged spells. I plan to have this happen if and when the players take more than two minutes to open her door after killing/defeating Deputy Stallit. Two minutes are more than enough time to discuss strategy, reposition, cast spells and such, but not enough time to replenish hit points using resource-free means, making Mistress Dusklight look like a fool for not taking advantage while the heroes are still affected by whatever damage Stallit managed to inflict.</p><p></p><p>Which brings me to the adventure description. Unless the GM reads it very carefully (the part where Deputy Stallit deactivates the maze for them) there is nowhere to retreat, except back into the ghost minotaur maze. And it's not the spectral gore attacks I'm worried about. It's the "being taken out of the fight" aspect - unless everyone retreats, the fight will effectively be over before any retreating characters can find their way back into the fight. And if everybody retreats, many GMs will be like me and have Mistress Dusklight heal up and possibly call upon reinforcements, since I find the strategy of "wearing down" bosses to be cheesy - if you can take away 1/3rd of a boss' HP in one go, then break off combat and heal up fully, you have effectively removed risk from the equation - and since XP is clearly meant as the reward for risks taken, winning fights with little risk should yield little XP.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Also, a throw-away comment in another thread made me look at Mistress Dusklight's stat block. She is indeed a formidable opponent. Her base abilities plus her spells make for great defenses. But she's not the usual BBEG with a grotesque offense to match. This raises the concern of a drawn-out fight that overstays its welcome.</p><p></p><p>If you have any tips on how to make this encounter run great, feel free.</p><p></p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>I'll report back next week (or, more likely, the week after that) with the actual play experience, and whether my preparations were warranted.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8029995, member: 12731"] We've had a longish break, but are set to play this Sunday. Here's an observation regarding a fairly uncommon occurrence (AFAIK) in the official adventure paths: [SPOILER="Extinction Curse chapter 8"] This discusses the final encounter of level 8, the confrontation with Mistress Dusklight. Specifically, the following two topics: a) the pacing of encounters b) fighting a low-offense high-defense boss without bogging down the action At least to my (limited) knowledge, Paizo isn't experimenting much with forcing the players to face several encounters in a row, as a single block. But unless the GM is both observant (or reads this) and lenient, the ending of the Celestial Menagerie map can easily cram three encounters into one. I'm not talking about facing all three encounters' worth of enemies at the same time (since the design of PF2 basically disallows that) - I'm talking about not getting the customary rest period in-between each one. That is, what I'm talking about is the potential for starting a new encounter at less than full health unless you have a Cleric et al in your party that is ready to use up valuable combat healing (even though the party is technically between combats). I'm talking about how this change of pace might surprise a party accustomed to being allowed rest between encounters, how this might catch players that have been weaned off their usual caution through seven levels where combat healing is never needed [I]after[/I] a fight. Maybe your players won't have a problem with this - this discussion is for the GMs who think theirs might. The adventure is written with the same assumption as always: that it is the party that sets the pace by opening the door to Dusklight's Quarters. However, I find it entirely unrealistic that the PCs should be allowed to face Deputy Stallit, and then take the customary 20-80 minutes of heal-up time before Mistress Dusklight intervenes. Therefore I will likely replace the completely closed wall between D12 Foyer and D13 Dusklight's Quarters with one with "holes" or small windows in it. Big enough for spellcasting (and arrows, I guess) to pass through, but not big enough for characters to just run through. This wall is hidden behind the curtains or drapery of the foyer, but Mistress Dusklight can tug on a rope to have them fall to the ground. This should force the party to either open the door or flee back into the maze. They can't just blithely sit down to Treat Wounds, since they're assaulted by Mistress Dusklight's ranged spells. I plan to have this happen if and when the players take more than two minutes to open her door after killing/defeating Deputy Stallit. Two minutes are more than enough time to discuss strategy, reposition, cast spells and such, but not enough time to replenish hit points using resource-free means, making Mistress Dusklight look like a fool for not taking advantage while the heroes are still affected by whatever damage Stallit managed to inflict. Which brings me to the adventure description. Unless the GM reads it very carefully (the part where Deputy Stallit deactivates the maze for them) there is nowhere to retreat, except back into the ghost minotaur maze. And it's not the spectral gore attacks I'm worried about. It's the "being taken out of the fight" aspect - unless everyone retreats, the fight will effectively be over before any retreating characters can find their way back into the fight. And if everybody retreats, many GMs will be like me and have Mistress Dusklight heal up and possibly call upon reinforcements, since I find the strategy of "wearing down" bosses to be cheesy - if you can take away 1/3rd of a boss' HP in one go, then break off combat and heal up fully, you have effectively removed risk from the equation - and since XP is clearly meant as the reward for risks taken, winning fights with little risk should yield little XP. --- Also, a throw-away comment in another thread made me look at Mistress Dusklight's stat block. She is indeed a formidable opponent. Her base abilities plus her spells make for great defenses. But she's not the usual BBEG with a grotesque offense to match. This raises the concern of a drawn-out fight that overstays its welcome. If you have any tips on how to make this encounter run great, feel free. [/SPOILER] I'll report back next week (or, more likely, the week after that) with the actual play experience, and whether my preparations were warranted. [/QUOTE]
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