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Pathfinder 2's Armor & A Preview of the Paladin!
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<blockquote data-quote="Gammadoodler" data-source="post: 7746072" data-attributes="member: 6914290"><p>I think I'd disagree with your contention that "lawful" means differing things in these differing contexts. Laws have, after all, existed for a very long time in human history (we have recorded laws from ancient Babylon) and have consistently been created, recorded and enforced for the same reasons, to define a set of acceptable behaviors for society. Presumably, the creators of those laws believe that, by forming this structure (whatever it is), they are improving society at large by outlawing 'bad' behavior. Even in a D&D world, it seems unlikely that laws would exist for any other reason. By extension, it seems that "lawfulness" would entail a respect for the benefits to society of adherence to those laws and the need for punishment of infractions of those laws. </p><p></p><p>There is nothing inconsistent with Mellored's example. A "lawful" character can very reasonably conclude that the value of the message to society that "those found guilty will be punished" outweighs damage done by inappropriate punishment of the innocent. </p><p></p><p>Your additional argument seems to include an assumption that the laws include 'justice' as an ideal upon which they rest and/or purpose which they serve. This is hardly a safe assumption. Slavery has been legal in a greater part of human history than it's been illegal. Womens' suffrage is only barely 100 years old in some of the earliest adopting countries. And this is 'real life' in 'modern' culture. Is there any argument that these laws had a justifiable underlying ideal or purpose? Is there any reason to believe that similarly abusive laws wouldn't exist in pseudo-medieval D&D fantasyland? </p><p></p><p>(Note: all of this ignores the many differing and conflicting ways in which 'good' can be interpreted)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gammadoodler, post: 7746072, member: 6914290"] I think I'd disagree with your contention that "lawful" means differing things in these differing contexts. Laws have, after all, existed for a very long time in human history (we have recorded laws from ancient Babylon) and have consistently been created, recorded and enforced for the same reasons, to define a set of acceptable behaviors for society. Presumably, the creators of those laws believe that, by forming this structure (whatever it is), they are improving society at large by outlawing 'bad' behavior. Even in a D&D world, it seems unlikely that laws would exist for any other reason. By extension, it seems that "lawfulness" would entail a respect for the benefits to society of adherence to those laws and the need for punishment of infractions of those laws. There is nothing inconsistent with Mellored's example. A "lawful" character can very reasonably conclude that the value of the message to society that "those found guilty will be punished" outweighs damage done by inappropriate punishment of the innocent. Your additional argument seems to include an assumption that the laws include 'justice' as an ideal upon which they rest and/or purpose which they serve. This is hardly a safe assumption. Slavery has been legal in a greater part of human history than it's been illegal. Womens' suffrage is only barely 100 years old in some of the earliest adopting countries. And this is 'real life' in 'modern' culture. Is there any argument that these laws had a justifiable underlying ideal or purpose? Is there any reason to believe that similarly abusive laws wouldn't exist in pseudo-medieval D&D fantasyland? (Note: all of this ignores the many differing and conflicting ways in which 'good' can be interpreted) [/QUOTE]
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