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Pathfinder 2's Critical Hits & Failures! Plus Save-or-Suck and Damage On A Miss!
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7741209" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>I have proven that, assuming the <em>two</em> quotes we have on the matter are accurate and that attack rolls and ability checks play by the same rules (both very reasonable assumptions in my opinion, but I’ll grant its <em>possible</em> one or both May turn out to be wrong), the only logical interpretation is that a natural 1/20 is a critical failure/success if the roll total would be a normal failure/success, and a normal failure/success otherwise.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And this was then further clarified by Siefter’s comment on the article.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Given that a natural 20 is a critical success if it meets or exceeds the target number, the only way a natural 20 could not be a critical success is if it did not meet or exceed the target number. In which case, assuming both quotes are accurate, it would be treated as a success. The reverse holds true for natural 1s.</p><p></p><p>This does mean that it is possible, if your attack bonus is equal to or greater than the target’s AC, for it to be impossible to miss with Sure Strike. But frankly, who’s going to use Sure Strike at that point? You hit on a natural 2-9, crit on 10+, and only miss on a natural 1. Whatever opportunity cost that 5% chance of doing minimum damage instead of no damage comes at, it ain’t worth it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok. I disagree, but that’s a much more reasonable concern than “damage on a failure that isn’t narrated as a miss is bad even when a miss is still possible.”</p><p></p><p></p><p>This isn’t automatic damage, and it’s a PC ability, so I think these objections to it are poorly founded.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7741209, member: 6779196"] I have proven that, assuming the [I]two[/I] quotes we have on the matter are accurate and that attack rolls and ability checks play by the same rules (both very reasonable assumptions in my opinion, but I’ll grant its [I]possible[/I] one or both May turn out to be wrong), the only logical interpretation is that a natural 1/20 is a critical failure/success if the roll total would be a normal failure/success, and a normal failure/success otherwise. And this was then further clarified by Siefter’s comment on the article. Given that a natural 20 is a critical success if it meets or exceeds the target number, the only way a natural 20 could not be a critical success is if it did not meet or exceed the target number. In which case, assuming both quotes are accurate, it would be treated as a success. The reverse holds true for natural 1s. This does mean that it is possible, if your attack bonus is equal to or greater than the target’s AC, for it to be impossible to miss with Sure Strike. But frankly, who’s going to use Sure Strike at that point? You hit on a natural 2-9, crit on 10+, and only miss on a natural 1. Whatever opportunity cost that 5% chance of doing minimum damage instead of no damage comes at, it ain’t worth it. Ok. I disagree, but that’s a much more reasonable concern than “damage on a failure that isn’t narrated as a miss is bad even when a miss is still possible.” This isn’t automatic damage, and it’s a PC ability, so I think these objections to it are poorly founded. [/QUOTE]
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Pathfinder 2's Critical Hits & Failures! Plus Save-or-Suck and Damage On A Miss!
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