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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8082312" data-attributes="member: 6801252"><p>The archetypes from the APG have really been a huge breath of fresh air because they really work to let you move into whatever combat style you want. For instance, if you want your champion or monk to fight with two weapons, you can just dip into dual weapon warrior and can pick up feat support to do that, and they'll still feel different in play because of their differing base chassis-- the monk will be better at using Dual Weapon Blitz for instance, because of their higher base speed.</p><p></p><p>This ironically runs counter to the point some posters have tried to make in this thread: rather than simply being an avenue for shovelfuls of options to sell, PF2e has made it a point to introduce a system that will cut down on the eventual feat support certain concepts would need to function-- rather than have class specific options that have to be designed and sold separately, classes can share many of the options that support similar concepts. </p><p></p><p>Want a Paladin that fights as a duelist? No problem. Want a Barbarian that does? Still no problem, look for feats in the same place. The system has the side effect that even if you do use the same archetype to achieve the similar concept (Duelist of whatever class, Dual Weapon Warrior of whatever class), you may wind up taking very different feats from it. </p><p></p><p>This combined with the decision to place the bulk of power budget and power progression in the base class chassis gives us a lot of interesting character building decisions, with a controlled but still present variation in power between builds. You can do interesting things with system mastery in this game, but it won't let you wreck the game or leave your friends behind (provided they know not to dump their primary stat.) </p><p></p><p>While I wouldn't say it's necessary to use the system well, my group has, with the release of the APG, instituted Free Archetype to really leverage the archetype system to do interesting things. It makes some of the more niche archetypes more palatable in games that aren't entirely focused on making them useful (e.g. the Dandy Archetype that is more appropriate for a highly social game, is something my Sorcerer can take, without compromising on combat in my game, which features a lot of combat in the first place.) </p><p></p><p>The classes are really neat too, I knew I was going to love the Witch (and its going to be a vehicle for me to bring back a character I've been bringing back for the better part of a decade now) but I'm realizing how well the investigator fits me in both personality and play style, and its always a joy when that happens.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8082312, member: 6801252"] The archetypes from the APG have really been a huge breath of fresh air because they really work to let you move into whatever combat style you want. For instance, if you want your champion or monk to fight with two weapons, you can just dip into dual weapon warrior and can pick up feat support to do that, and they'll still feel different in play because of their differing base chassis-- the monk will be better at using Dual Weapon Blitz for instance, because of their higher base speed. This ironically runs counter to the point some posters have tried to make in this thread: rather than simply being an avenue for shovelfuls of options to sell, PF2e has made it a point to introduce a system that will cut down on the eventual feat support certain concepts would need to function-- rather than have class specific options that have to be designed and sold separately, classes can share many of the options that support similar concepts. Want a Paladin that fights as a duelist? No problem. Want a Barbarian that does? Still no problem, look for feats in the same place. The system has the side effect that even if you do use the same archetype to achieve the similar concept (Duelist of whatever class, Dual Weapon Warrior of whatever class), you may wind up taking very different feats from it. This combined with the decision to place the bulk of power budget and power progression in the base class chassis gives us a lot of interesting character building decisions, with a controlled but still present variation in power between builds. You can do interesting things with system mastery in this game, but it won't let you wreck the game or leave your friends behind (provided they know not to dump their primary stat.) While I wouldn't say it's necessary to use the system well, my group has, with the release of the APG, instituted Free Archetype to really leverage the archetype system to do interesting things. It makes some of the more niche archetypes more palatable in games that aren't entirely focused on making them useful (e.g. the Dandy Archetype that is more appropriate for a highly social game, is something my Sorcerer can take, without compromising on combat in my game, which features a lot of combat in the first place.) The classes are really neat too, I knew I was going to love the Witch (and its going to be a vehicle for me to bring back a character I've been bringing back for the better part of a decade now) but I'm realizing how well the investigator fits me in both personality and play style, and its always a joy when that happens. [/QUOTE]
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