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<blockquote data-quote="Kaisoku" data-source="post: 5207944" data-attributes="member: 58447"><p>I believe the quote you originally responded to was saying that medium animals should have 1 HD, <em>and then physical stats that make them powerful</em>.</p><p></p><p>HD is mostly about training. You can make up most physical combat stuff by slapping on a lethal attack (any form of natural weapon), and pump the strength, constitution and dexterity.</p><p></p><p>A 1 HD, standard (all 10s in ability scores) unarmed and unarmored human has AC 10, 3 hitpoints, an attack bonus of -4 to cause lethal damage with his bare hands, and does an average of 2 damage on an attack that provokes an Attack of Opportunity, and doesn't threaten.</p><p></p><p>By contrast, a simple small sized dog has an AC 13, 6 hitpoints, a +2 to attack lethal damage bite that deals an average of 3.5 damage (meaning, the human is unconscious in an average of 1 attack).</p><p></p><p>The dog lands his attack on a 8 or better (65% chance), while the human needs a 17 or better (20% chance). Note that the human needs to hit about 3 times at that abysmal chance to just get the thing unconscious (let alone kill).</p><p>The dog will likely knock out the human in round 1 (counting the attack from the attack of opportunity), dead in the next round or two (depending on coup-de-grace), while the human would need 15+ rounds on average to knock out the dog.</p><p></p><p>And that's a <em>small</em> sized animal (the size of your average dog), with only 13s and a 15 in his physical stats.</p><p></p><p>Considering how weak Humans are at defending themselves against natural attacks, and at dealing damage unarmed, I think that 1 HD is plenty if you give the animal even a modicum of bonus to his physical stats.</p><p></p><p>Note how a leopard has a bite and two claws, plus pouncing and rake, <em>and</em> 16 Str, 19 Dex and 15 Con. Now granted, he has 3 HD (which isn't far off to the quote, granting an extra HD for solitary predators), but even at 2 HD he'd be a human killer... easy.</p><p></p><p>It would require a human with exceptional physical stats (13s-17s), and at least a little bit of armament (a leather jacket and a crowbar), to have a "chance" at surviving an encounter with such an animal that was crazy enough to want him dead (rabies, starving, etc). Given that a lot of these creatures have great stealth in their favored environment, and pouncing attacks, and a proclivity for attacking the "weak or injured of a herd", these animals would get a lot of kills in before the humans knew what hit them.</p><p></p><p>If you have different information that indicates an unarmed human has a "relatively even chance" against a leopard (even at 1 or 2 HD for the leopard), I'd like to see it...</p><p>The math, from where I'm looking at it, doesn't support that at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kaisoku, post: 5207944, member: 58447"] I believe the quote you originally responded to was saying that medium animals should have 1 HD, [I]and then physical stats that make them powerful[/I]. HD is mostly about training. You can make up most physical combat stuff by slapping on a lethal attack (any form of natural weapon), and pump the strength, constitution and dexterity. A 1 HD, standard (all 10s in ability scores) unarmed and unarmored human has AC 10, 3 hitpoints, an attack bonus of -4 to cause lethal damage with his bare hands, and does an average of 2 damage on an attack that provokes an Attack of Opportunity, and doesn't threaten. By contrast, a simple small sized dog has an AC 13, 6 hitpoints, a +2 to attack lethal damage bite that deals an average of 3.5 damage (meaning, the human is unconscious in an average of 1 attack). The dog lands his attack on a 8 or better (65% chance), while the human needs a 17 or better (20% chance). Note that the human needs to hit about 3 times at that abysmal chance to just get the thing unconscious (let alone kill). The dog will likely knock out the human in round 1 (counting the attack from the attack of opportunity), dead in the next round or two (depending on coup-de-grace), while the human would need 15+ rounds on average to knock out the dog. And that's a [I]small[/I] sized animal (the size of your average dog), with only 13s and a 15 in his physical stats. Considering how weak Humans are at defending themselves against natural attacks, and at dealing damage unarmed, I think that 1 HD is plenty if you give the animal even a modicum of bonus to his physical stats. Note how a leopard has a bite and two claws, plus pouncing and rake, [I]and[/I] 16 Str, 19 Dex and 15 Con. Now granted, he has 3 HD (which isn't far off to the quote, granting an extra HD for solitary predators), but even at 2 HD he'd be a human killer... easy. It would require a human with exceptional physical stats (13s-17s), and at least a little bit of armament (a leather jacket and a crowbar), to have a "chance" at surviving an encounter with such an animal that was crazy enough to want him dead (rabies, starving, etc). Given that a lot of these creatures have great stealth in their favored environment, and pouncing attacks, and a proclivity for attacking the "weak or injured of a herd", these animals would get a lot of kills in before the humans knew what hit them. If you have different information that indicates an unarmed human has a "relatively even chance" against a leopard (even at 1 or 2 HD for the leopard), I'd like to see it... The math, from where I'm looking at it, doesn't support that at all. [/QUOTE]
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