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<blockquote data-quote="sheadunne" data-source="post: 6124910" data-attributes="member: 27570"><p>What, specifically, do you consider rules bloat? I don't think there are many rules additions in PF. There are a ton of character options, but they tend to follow the same rules as all the other characters. Are you feeling that there are too many character options and you can't memorize them all and get set back when a character does something you weren't expecting? That issue isn't a result of PF, but rather play expectations. Do you need to know all the fiddly bits of character options? I think 3.5 had way more bits than PF does. If you could give some examples of the rules issues that are coming up (ie new rules issues unique to PF, since most of the rule issues in PF date back to 3e and have been hashed over for 13 years). </p><p></p><p>There are plenty of little issues that can emerge from character options, spells, feats, etc. However, I think they can be resolved with consistency based on how other parts of the game work. If you're getting into rules discussions during the game, then that's a play expectation issue. This can be resolved by making rulings (or simply doing group votes, which I prefer) and then discussing the issue after the game.</p><p></p><p>Personally I enjoy rules discussions as they present themselves during game play, but it's not for everyone. It's possible that other players have the same enjoyment. This could be discussed with the players and see what they're interested in. </p><p></p><p>There's not much you can do about combat prep time, other than not use miniatures. This isn't a PF problem but a 3e/4e/PF issue. Combat can take a while to play out as well, but the enjoyment of this is individual and some people enjoy the tactical nature of combat, so again, this is a player discussion. I know that my enjoyment of combat has nothing to do with wether or not I'm a good roleplayer. There's not really a connection between the two. You might be more concerned about the meta-game discussions going on during combat, which is something different, but this is a group conversation and not one that can be resolved by a change of rules. I know that we had plenty of rules discussions and meta-game talk in 1e and 2e back in the day. It's about they players, not the game.</p><p></p><p>Have good conversations with your fellow gamers and see what they want/expect out of the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="sheadunne, post: 6124910, member: 27570"] What, specifically, do you consider rules bloat? I don't think there are many rules additions in PF. There are a ton of character options, but they tend to follow the same rules as all the other characters. Are you feeling that there are too many character options and you can't memorize them all and get set back when a character does something you weren't expecting? That issue isn't a result of PF, but rather play expectations. Do you need to know all the fiddly bits of character options? I think 3.5 had way more bits than PF does. If you could give some examples of the rules issues that are coming up (ie new rules issues unique to PF, since most of the rule issues in PF date back to 3e and have been hashed over for 13 years). There are plenty of little issues that can emerge from character options, spells, feats, etc. However, I think they can be resolved with consistency based on how other parts of the game work. If you're getting into rules discussions during the game, then that's a play expectation issue. This can be resolved by making rulings (or simply doing group votes, which I prefer) and then discussing the issue after the game. Personally I enjoy rules discussions as they present themselves during game play, but it's not for everyone. It's possible that other players have the same enjoyment. This could be discussed with the players and see what they're interested in. There's not much you can do about combat prep time, other than not use miniatures. This isn't a PF problem but a 3e/4e/PF issue. Combat can take a while to play out as well, but the enjoyment of this is individual and some people enjoy the tactical nature of combat, so again, this is a player discussion. I know that my enjoyment of combat has nothing to do with wether or not I'm a good roleplayer. There's not really a connection between the two. You might be more concerned about the meta-game discussions going on during combat, which is something different, but this is a group conversation and not one that can be resolved by a change of rules. I know that we had plenty of rules discussions and meta-game talk in 1e and 2e back in the day. It's about they players, not the game. Have good conversations with your fellow gamers and see what they want/expect out of the game. [/QUOTE]
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