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<blockquote data-quote="LexStarwalker" data-source="post: 6124960" data-attributes="member: 6733461"><p>I don't think I should have said rules bloat; that's a separate problem. I really don't mind all the character options, because in my game it's the responsibility of the players to understand their characters. </p><p></p><p>What I'm more referring to is all the rules & systems that slow down play, especially during combat. Things like all the movement and positioning rules, individual initiative, etc. The problem really began with 3.0 and the addition of (the requirement for) miniatures. I've looked into E6, and it doesn't totally solve the problem. Yes, it eliminates the issues of higher level play, but there are pacing issues at level 1. </p><p></p><p>As for the MMO comment, what I meant is that the person isn't necessarily trying to recreate an MMO experience (they may have never even played one), but instead I meant to refer to a similarity of mentality. A mentality where one is more concerned with numbers, mechanics, min-maxing, optimizing, and creating the most combat-capable character they can as opposed to creating an interesting character from a story perspective.</p><p></p><p>I'm also not passing judgment on those who like to play that way; there are obviously a lot who do. It's just not the experience I want to have at my gaming table. More and more, though, I think this is a mentality that is hardwired into Pathfinder. If you look at just the core book at the number of words devoted to combat mechanics as opposed to things like roleplay, social encounters, character development (as in personality not combat effectiveness), it's obvious what the game focuses on. You can't really blame the players for picking up on that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LexStarwalker, post: 6124960, member: 6733461"] I don't think I should have said rules bloat; that's a separate problem. I really don't mind all the character options, because in my game it's the responsibility of the players to understand their characters. What I'm more referring to is all the rules & systems that slow down play, especially during combat. Things like all the movement and positioning rules, individual initiative, etc. The problem really began with 3.0 and the addition of (the requirement for) miniatures. I've looked into E6, and it doesn't totally solve the problem. Yes, it eliminates the issues of higher level play, but there are pacing issues at level 1. As for the MMO comment, what I meant is that the person isn't necessarily trying to recreate an MMO experience (they may have never even played one), but instead I meant to refer to a similarity of mentality. A mentality where one is more concerned with numbers, mechanics, min-maxing, optimizing, and creating the most combat-capable character they can as opposed to creating an interesting character from a story perspective. I'm also not passing judgment on those who like to play that way; there are obviously a lot who do. It's just not the experience I want to have at my gaming table. More and more, though, I think this is a mentality that is hardwired into Pathfinder. If you look at just the core book at the number of words devoted to combat mechanics as opposed to things like roleplay, social encounters, character development (as in personality not combat effectiveness), it's obvious what the game focuses on. You can't really blame the players for picking up on that. [/QUOTE]
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