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Community
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D&D Older Editions
Pemertonian Scene Framing and 4e DMing Restarted
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6090344" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I've been saying this for a long time! I think it's one of the subtle strengths of 4e.</p><p></p><p>It's also why I, personally, disagree with those who say that the cosmology, lore etc changes were just changes for changes sake. I think they kept a lot of the classic D&D ideas more-or-less in place, but tweaked and polished here and there to give the whole thing a more dynamic, pro-active feel, especially from the players' point of view (ie it's not just that the GM knows all this cool backstory and gradually feeds it to the players, but the players choose how to invest in it just by building their PCs).</p><p></p><p>Now all that said, in my own 4e game I included two additional character-creation rules: your PC must have one loyalty; and your PC must have a reason to be ready to fight goblins. But 4e still made it easy to answer these questions - eg the warlock was loyal to his patron; the wizard was a former acolyte of the Raven Queen (cleric multi-class feat) etc. The build elements make it easy rather than hard to make answers to these questions a straightforward part of your PC.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I thnk this relates somewhat to the "turtling" discussion upthread - ie I think the two phenomena are related.</p><p></p><p>Expaining the relationship is more controversial - as I've indicated in the past, I'm fairly sympathetic to the Forge/Ron Edwards diagnosis - it's about an approach to play shaped by bad experiences of excessive GM force in action resolution and enforcing the "story", which have taught these players to focus on a different part of the game over which they (i) have more control, and (ii) can use to push back against the GM.</p><p></p><p>But I'm sure others have interesting and equally - perhaps more - viable theories!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6090344, member: 42582"] I've been saying this for a long time! I think it's one of the subtle strengths of 4e. It's also why I, personally, disagree with those who say that the cosmology, lore etc changes were just changes for changes sake. I think they kept a lot of the classic D&D ideas more-or-less in place, but tweaked and polished here and there to give the whole thing a more dynamic, pro-active feel, especially from the players' point of view (ie it's not just that the GM knows all this cool backstory and gradually feeds it to the players, but the players choose how to invest in it just by building their PCs). Now all that said, in my own 4e game I included two additional character-creation rules: your PC must have one loyalty; and your PC must have a reason to be ready to fight goblins. But 4e still made it easy to answer these questions - eg the warlock was loyal to his patron; the wizard was a former acolyte of the Raven Queen (cleric multi-class feat) etc. The build elements make it easy rather than hard to make answers to these questions a straightforward part of your PC. I thnk this relates somewhat to the "turtling" discussion upthread - ie I think the two phenomena are related. Expaining the relationship is more controversial - as I've indicated in the past, I'm fairly sympathetic to the Forge/Ron Edwards diagnosis - it's about an approach to play shaped by bad experiences of excessive GM force in action resolution and enforcing the "story", which have taught these players to focus on a different part of the game over which they (i) have more control, and (ii) can use to push back against the GM. But I'm sure others have interesting and equally - perhaps more - viable theories! [/QUOTE]
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