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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Pemertonian Scene Framing and 4e DMing Restarted
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6090525" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I keep forgetting how extreme "turtling" is in your usage/experience - I've still got the Edwards "won't do anything beyond follow basic cues" picture in mind.</p><p></p><p>On pawn stance, I'm sure [MENTION=305]Storminator[/MENTION] has identified one possible causal pathway. What I had in mind was something like this - a player in a game with strong GM force won't tend build a PC who is open to and engaged with the gameworld, because that space has been crowded out by, and is dictated by, the GM. So instead you get PCs whose character is all about colour - their style in boots, their quips, their obsession with haggling with shopkeepers, etc - rather than about situation and action; or you get PCs where that stuff is irrelevant because the player works on the mechanical stuff that the GM can't control.</p><p></p><p>When I write it down like that it's not quite pawn stance - at least the first of the two approaches I describe isn't pawn stance - but it's something short of full-blooded play, at least in my view. It's not a player using their PC to seize the ingame situation by the horns, which is what I tend to think of RPGs as being about.</p><p></p><p>I realise I'm generalising a lot here, and probably drawing too heavily on my own personal combination of experiences (especially in the 90s) and subsequent use of The Forge to analyse and interpret those experiences (which prior to The Forge were for me just "bad GMs" and "irritating players", with little understanding or analysis). But I'm going to compound that anyway and draw another tenuous link: I find it quite common to read (on these boards, and in other RPG commentary) about player-initiated (or sometimes framed as PC-initiated) "side quests", in which the PC's personal story gets told against the backdrop of the "real" story, which is the campaign story. And I think that way of thinking is linked to the same sort of GM force, non-full-blooded playing outlook.</p><p></p><p>Whereas I much prefer a game where the campaign story <em>is</em> the PCs' personal story. This is what I see a scene-framing approach helping with. I also think it fits with [MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION]'s remarks on the earlier thread that scene-framing is first and foremost about character, with the time-management aspect being a secondary technique deployed in pursuit of that character-oriented play. And it also reminds me of a conversation on some other thread in the past 6 months or so beteen [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] and me, where I mentioned Marvel-style team superhero comics - and especially Claremon'ts X-Men - as an influence on my GMing approach. Because what is gonzo fantasy scene-framing RPGing, but a team of superheroes whose personal stories get told as part and parcel of telling the story of the fate of the very omniverse!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6090525, member: 42582"] I keep forgetting how extreme "turtling" is in your usage/experience - I've still got the Edwards "won't do anything beyond follow basic cues" picture in mind. On pawn stance, I'm sure [MENTION=305]Storminator[/MENTION] has identified one possible causal pathway. What I had in mind was something like this - a player in a game with strong GM force won't tend build a PC who is open to and engaged with the gameworld, because that space has been crowded out by, and is dictated by, the GM. So instead you get PCs whose character is all about colour - their style in boots, their quips, their obsession with haggling with shopkeepers, etc - rather than about situation and action; or you get PCs where that stuff is irrelevant because the player works on the mechanical stuff that the GM can't control. When I write it down like that it's not quite pawn stance - at least the first of the two approaches I describe isn't pawn stance - but it's something short of full-blooded play, at least in my view. It's not a player using their PC to seize the ingame situation by the horns, which is what I tend to think of RPGs as being about. I realise I'm generalising a lot here, and probably drawing too heavily on my own personal combination of experiences (especially in the 90s) and subsequent use of The Forge to analyse and interpret those experiences (which prior to The Forge were for me just "bad GMs" and "irritating players", with little understanding or analysis). But I'm going to compound that anyway and draw another tenuous link: I find it quite common to read (on these boards, and in other RPG commentary) about player-initiated (or sometimes framed as PC-initiated) "side quests", in which the PC's personal story gets told against the backdrop of the "real" story, which is the campaign story. And I think that way of thinking is linked to the same sort of GM force, non-full-blooded playing outlook. Whereas I much prefer a game where the campaign story [I]is[/I] the PCs' personal story. This is what I see a scene-framing approach helping with. I also think it fits with [MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION]'s remarks on the earlier thread that scene-framing is first and foremost about character, with the time-management aspect being a secondary technique deployed in pursuit of that character-oriented play. And it also reminds me of a conversation on some other thread in the past 6 months or so beteen [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] and me, where I mentioned Marvel-style team superhero comics - and especially Claremon'ts X-Men - as an influence on my GMing approach. Because what is gonzo fantasy scene-framing RPGing, but a team of superheroes whose personal stories get told as part and parcel of telling the story of the fate of the very omniverse! [/QUOTE]
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