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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Pemertonian Scene Framing and 4e DMing Restarted
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<blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 6090561" data-attributes="member: 22882"><p>I think it's important to at least try to distinguish between three categories of player.</p><p></p><p>First are those who are actively disruptive, either by refusing all calls to leave their safe zone and engage with the game (like the disruptive Turtle mentioned above), or by engaging with it only in a destructive manner (the Chaotic Stupid type). Whether these players are genuinely enjoying themselves, or they're acting out because of past bad experiences in-game or problems out-of-game, doesn't really matter. They're hurting the fun of everyone at the table and trying to "cure" them is a sucker's game. My only caveat is that when young, usually teenage, players do this, sometimes they grow out of it. If an adult did I'd tell her to leave my table without hesitation.</p><p></p><p>Second are those who have had bad gaming experiences that shaped their playstyle into something they aren't genuinely enjoying, but who come out of it merely passive rather than disruptive. I personally don't mind having these players, or understand those who do, and sometimes they come out of their shells from watching other people have a good time with a more active style. Whether or not it's worth trying to draw them out or not is up to the individual group, of course.</p><p></p><p>I think a third category is being excluded, though: people who <em>genuinely enjoy</em> a different style of play. For purposes of this discussion, that includes both passive (casual) players and pawn stance players. If somebody just wants to hang with friends and roll some dice once in a while, or just wants to engage with the game as either a strategic or tactical exercise, that doesn't mean they're wrong or even missing out. They may be getting exactly what they want from the game, even if it doesn't look it to somebody with a different agenda, and casual players in particular can get what they want out of almost <em>any</em> game.</p><p></p><p>As far as scene framing is concerned, I think the best way to deal with a non-disruptive passive player is to frame scenes around the active players' PCs, and occasionally make an offer to the passive player. If it's declined? No worries. They are apparently enjoying being along for the ride, either because their friends are there or because they get to engage with the game tactically and watch other people's cut scenes. At least for me, <em>that's okay</em>.</p><p></p><p>(There are also people - raises hand - who from time to time legitimately enjoy turtle play, but that requires a very different kind of game, one where the goal is generally known, the assets in the entire play area are predetermined, and the game is essentially, intentionally, player vs. GM.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MoogleEmpMog, post: 6090561, member: 22882"] I think it's important to at least try to distinguish between three categories of player. First are those who are actively disruptive, either by refusing all calls to leave their safe zone and engage with the game (like the disruptive Turtle mentioned above), or by engaging with it only in a destructive manner (the Chaotic Stupid type). Whether these players are genuinely enjoying themselves, or they're acting out because of past bad experiences in-game or problems out-of-game, doesn't really matter. They're hurting the fun of everyone at the table and trying to "cure" them is a sucker's game. My only caveat is that when young, usually teenage, players do this, sometimes they grow out of it. If an adult did I'd tell her to leave my table without hesitation. Second are those who have had bad gaming experiences that shaped their playstyle into something they aren't genuinely enjoying, but who come out of it merely passive rather than disruptive. I personally don't mind having these players, or understand those who do, and sometimes they come out of their shells from watching other people have a good time with a more active style. Whether or not it's worth trying to draw them out or not is up to the individual group, of course. I think a third category is being excluded, though: people who [I]genuinely enjoy[/I] a different style of play. For purposes of this discussion, that includes both passive (casual) players and pawn stance players. If somebody just wants to hang with friends and roll some dice once in a while, or just wants to engage with the game as either a strategic or tactical exercise, that doesn't mean they're wrong or even missing out. They may be getting exactly what they want from the game, even if it doesn't look it to somebody with a different agenda, and casual players in particular can get what they want out of almost [I]any[/I] game. As far as scene framing is concerned, I think the best way to deal with a non-disruptive passive player is to frame scenes around the active players' PCs, and occasionally make an offer to the passive player. If it's declined? No worries. They are apparently enjoying being along for the ride, either because their friends are there or because they get to engage with the game tactically and watch other people's cut scenes. At least for me, [I]that's okay[/I]. (There are also people - raises hand - who from time to time legitimately enjoy turtle play, but that requires a very different kind of game, one where the goal is generally known, the assets in the entire play area are predetermined, and the game is essentially, intentionally, player vs. GM.) [/QUOTE]
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