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<blockquote data-quote="Kurtomatic" data-source="post: 6091644" data-attributes="member: 85486"><p>Thanks very much for your time Pemerton.</p><p></p><p>They have their moments of brilliance, and tons of nifty reusable content and assets (very nice maps, etc). But run as written they strongly trend to relentless railroad beat-downs (IMO). I compare vanilla AP campaigns to the original Pirates of the Caribbean park ride (please stay seated at all times!).</p><p></p><p>You are quite correct! What happens in my experience is one or two players who are willing to care enough about the narrative to overlook its flaws are granted some authority by the rest of the group to keep up with the story, while everyone else enjoys kicking some ass and some spot roleplaying when something really interesting happens.</p><p></p><p>Point taken. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>In fact, a really in-your-face coincidence cascade might be a really fun sequence of beats. If the world really is Totally Just About You for a few hours, that could put the scare in. </p><p></p><p>And thanks for the Burning THAC0 link. I'll give the 'spoiler-preview' concept some more thought; I've tried similar things in the past. On of the best assets Paizo provides for their APs are free player's campaign guides that often contain some pretty strong spoilers or hints (whoops!), and this puts a whole new light on that.</p><p></p><p>Again, this is quite correct.</p><p></p><p>The very best bits of the very best APs are:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A bucket-full of cool NPCs.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A bunch of neato story-turns and set-peices.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A handful of really memorable dungeons.</li> </ul><p>All of which are fungible.</p><p></p><p>Poops. I will likely need to be very patient or very lucky. Stuff Happens, hehe.</p><p></p><p>Okay, a was a little terse there just to avoid unneeded spoilers on principle. I will say the Curse of the Crimson Throne tries very hard to make the PCs the center of the story. It is one of the most praised APs by Pathfinder fans, generally in the top 1 or 2 spot in the rankings. </p><p></p><p>CotCT tries to do just what you suggest: the opening involves some immediate revenge and tragedy. Paizo's APs encourage players to pick a campaign trait (similar to a regional feat) that ties the PC directly to a story NPC or other main story element, and provides a small mechanical bennie on the side. CotCT actually has a great opening for a protagonist-focused game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>However, it then changes gears to a large, existential threat to the city of Korvosa, which the PCs are positioned to defend. The problem is, the story behind that threat has nothing to do with the PCs (at first), so the AP then has to try to tie the party's personal stories to the city's (through several side-adventures). The AP features a great cast of NPCs, and its their job to make you care about the city and the mysteries that threaten it. This works for some groups, and not so much for others. One the trends in the Paizo DM forums are groups that turn out pretty ambivalent about Korvosa, and aren't invested in defending it. The plot thickeners make this even harder by making mysterious stuff <em>too mysterious</em> and giving players easy outs if they take everything at face value. So you end up in some cases with parties perfectly willing to let the city burn to the ground. Not exactly what the designers intended.</p><p></p><p>Of course, in the kind of campaigning we're talking about, that is actually a pretty interesting outcome, and would provide significant grist for the protagonist mill later on. So yeah, buffet for sure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kurtomatic, post: 6091644, member: 85486"] Thanks very much for your time Pemerton. They have their moments of brilliance, and tons of nifty reusable content and assets (very nice maps, etc). But run as written they strongly trend to relentless railroad beat-downs (IMO). I compare vanilla AP campaigns to the original Pirates of the Caribbean park ride (please stay seated at all times!). You are quite correct! What happens in my experience is one or two players who are willing to care enough about the narrative to overlook its flaws are granted some authority by the rest of the group to keep up with the story, while everyone else enjoys kicking some ass and some spot roleplaying when something really interesting happens. Point taken. ;) In fact, a really in-your-face coincidence cascade might be a really fun sequence of beats. If the world really is Totally Just About You for a few hours, that could put the scare in. And thanks for the Burning THAC0 link. I'll give the 'spoiler-preview' concept some more thought; I've tried similar things in the past. On of the best assets Paizo provides for their APs are free player's campaign guides that often contain some pretty strong spoilers or hints (whoops!), and this puts a whole new light on that. Again, this is quite correct. The very best bits of the very best APs are: [LIST] [*]A bucket-full of cool NPCs. [*]A bunch of neato story-turns and set-peices. [*]A handful of really memorable dungeons. [/LIST] All of which are fungible. Poops. I will likely need to be very patient or very lucky. Stuff Happens, hehe. Okay, a was a little terse there just to avoid unneeded spoilers on principle. I will say the Curse of the Crimson Throne tries very hard to make the PCs the center of the story. It is one of the most praised APs by Pathfinder fans, generally in the top 1 or 2 spot in the rankings. CotCT tries to do just what you suggest: the opening involves some immediate revenge and tragedy. Paizo's APs encourage players to pick a campaign trait (similar to a regional feat) that ties the PC directly to a story NPC or other main story element, and provides a small mechanical bennie on the side. CotCT actually has a great opening for a protagonist-focused game. However, it then changes gears to a large, existential threat to the city of Korvosa, which the PCs are positioned to defend. The problem is, the story behind that threat has nothing to do with the PCs (at first), so the AP then has to try to tie the party's personal stories to the city's (through several side-adventures). The AP features a great cast of NPCs, and its their job to make you care about the city and the mysteries that threaten it. This works for some groups, and not so much for others. One the trends in the Paizo DM forums are groups that turn out pretty ambivalent about Korvosa, and aren't invested in defending it. The plot thickeners make this even harder by making mysterious stuff [I]too mysterious[/I] and giving players easy outs if they take everything at face value. So you end up in some cases with parties perfectly willing to let the city burn to the ground. Not exactly what the designers intended. Of course, in the kind of campaigning we're talking about, that is actually a pretty interesting outcome, and would provide significant grist for the protagonist mill later on. So yeah, buffet for sure. [/QUOTE]
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