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Permanent Increases in Intelligence Question
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<blockquote data-quote="ElectricDragon" data-source="post: 7172825" data-attributes="member: 10778"><p>The rationalizations for why it is done are all metagame: it is not realistic, I follow the rules, etc. But they are just that, rationalizations. As far as skills set upon finding the item; Stealth, Bluff, Hide, etc. would be a strange one for a wizard to construct, unless your rogues regularly make magic items, rationally, more likely would be other intelligence-based skills like the less-used knowledge skills (like history, architecture, nature, etc.). But of course you do not have to have rationalizations in your game. It is a game and you make the rules, even those who say, "I'm a rules kind of guy"</p><p></p><p>I have never had someone use Int for <em>bestow curse</em>, more likely is Con to lessen hp or Str to lessen damage or Dex to lessen AC. Decreasing Int for a dumb creature would be the quickest way to make such a creature a non-encounter. But like I said before, skills can wait until after battle to adjust. Me (the DM) and the player would then work out which skills took the hit. If the Intelligence loss is temporary because of (<em>remove curse</em> or some such), the same points would return upon removal of the curse. It is strange that you have no problem with a character magically gaining Intelligence but rebel against the magic extending to skills. <u>Every other stat does not make the character gain a level to get the full bonus from the magic item/spell</u> No matter how you rationalize it, you are weakening <em>Tome of Clear Thought</em> and <em>wishes</em> for increased intelligence to make them less effective than their counterparts with any other stat. As far as what the skills would be, I do not let such Intelligence increases allow the character to learn new skills, they can only improve on the ones they already have that aren't maxed out.</p><p></p><p>Retroactive, that is the word everyone has a problem with. How about this: It is not retroactive, they are immediately smarter, and they now understand what they trained in better. Kinda like how a stronger fighter hits more often and does more damage without having to train with this new increased strength. Or a more Dexterous rogue can improve his chance to hide, move silently, balance better, tumble better, etc. all of a sudden; all without extra training.</p><p></p><p>Nevertheless, how you ask? The answer of course is two-fold: it is a game, played for fun; and there is no reason to limit only one character class when it is not for balance. Yes, characters other than wizards can use the book or spell to increase intelligence; most do not even think about it unless they are a wizard (and by your ruling, nothing would actually change for non-wizards other than skill mods until level up). </p><p></p><p>Let me ask you a question in return, when someone spends a skill point or two, during the level-up process; if they choose to learn a new language, do you make them have to make some kind of a check for 6-8 months of game-play to simulate them learning the new language, with lots of chances to misunderstand or say the wrong thing all the while? And then extend the time required if they do not use the language at every opportunity? Or do you just hand wave it because it is not specifically called out in the rules to make them wait for proficiency? If you do not do this; reality suffers and your rationalizations falter. </p><p>BTW, I did not advocate extra starting spells or languages, those parts are only for beginning characters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ElectricDragon, post: 7172825, member: 10778"] The rationalizations for why it is done are all metagame: it is not realistic, I follow the rules, etc. But they are just that, rationalizations. As far as skills set upon finding the item; Stealth, Bluff, Hide, etc. would be a strange one for a wizard to construct, unless your rogues regularly make magic items, rationally, more likely would be other intelligence-based skills like the less-used knowledge skills (like history, architecture, nature, etc.). But of course you do not have to have rationalizations in your game. It is a game and you make the rules, even those who say, "I'm a rules kind of guy" I have never had someone use Int for [I]bestow curse[/I], more likely is Con to lessen hp or Str to lessen damage or Dex to lessen AC. Decreasing Int for a dumb creature would be the quickest way to make such a creature a non-encounter. But like I said before, skills can wait until after battle to adjust. Me (the DM) and the player would then work out which skills took the hit. If the Intelligence loss is temporary because of ([I]remove curse[/I] or some such), the same points would return upon removal of the curse. It is strange that you have no problem with a character magically gaining Intelligence but rebel against the magic extending to skills. [u]Every other stat does not make the character gain a level to get the full bonus from the magic item/spell[/u] No matter how you rationalize it, you are weakening [I]Tome of Clear Thought[/I] and [I]wishes[/I] for increased intelligence to make them less effective than their counterparts with any other stat. As far as what the skills would be, I do not let such Intelligence increases allow the character to learn new skills, they can only improve on the ones they already have that aren't maxed out. Retroactive, that is the word everyone has a problem with. How about this: It is not retroactive, they are immediately smarter, and they now understand what they trained in better. Kinda like how a stronger fighter hits more often and does more damage without having to train with this new increased strength. Or a more Dexterous rogue can improve his chance to hide, move silently, balance better, tumble better, etc. all of a sudden; all without extra training. Nevertheless, how you ask? The answer of course is two-fold: it is a game, played for fun; and there is no reason to limit only one character class when it is not for balance. Yes, characters other than wizards can use the book or spell to increase intelligence; most do not even think about it unless they are a wizard (and by your ruling, nothing would actually change for non-wizards other than skill mods until level up). Let me ask you a question in return, when someone spends a skill point or two, during the level-up process; if they choose to learn a new language, do you make them have to make some kind of a check for 6-8 months of game-play to simulate them learning the new language, with lots of chances to misunderstand or say the wrong thing all the while? And then extend the time required if they do not use the language at every opportunity? Or do you just hand wave it because it is not specifically called out in the rules to make them wait for proficiency? If you do not do this; reality suffers and your rationalizations falter. BTW, I did not advocate extra starting spells or languages, those parts are only for beginning characters. [/QUOTE]
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