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Permanent Increases in Intelligence Question
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<blockquote data-quote="ElectricDragon" data-source="post: 7180966" data-attributes="member: 10778"><p>Quick Recap of this thread up to page 5.</p><p></p><p>Herzog said that decreases should be retroactive too.</p><p></p><p>I agreed and modified my rule such.</p><p></p><p>Runestar claimed retroactive con is easier to figure than retroactive int, I disagree, my formula is just as easy as his.</p><p></p><p>Voadam asked when you permanently lose Int? You answered that with feeblemind, bestow curse, and a few creatures. There may be other things too, not important; but I modified my rule to deal with it.</p><p></p><p>FranktheDM claims lessening of record keeping to not do it. I disagree and stated that in practice it has been less bookkeeping as no one has to remember and write down when they increased their intelligence and for what reason and how.</p><p></p><p>Ahnehois said he uses his version of the rule.</p><p></p><p>rgard said he uses it too.</p><p></p><p>Corsair claims Con is not retroactive. I use his explanation to prove Int is not retroactive either.</p><p></p><p>Irdeggman says, truthfully, we as DM's cheat. Possibly the best answer, but does it invalidate my rule, no.</p><p></p><p>Celebrim agrees with Irdeggman accuses me of being jealous of the dragon's skill points. Untrue, but good avoidance of the issue.</p><p></p><p>Greenfield asks how someone suddenly and retroactively learn skills that they never studied. I counter with how did someone who never worked out suddenly get all those strength bonuses as if they had spent that time doing it? But I modify the rule to move away from that restriction: only skills already owned and not maxed out.</p><p></p><p>Greenfield asks why ask if I wasn't going to listen to the answers, like if the answer were easy I couldn't have figured it out by myself.</p><p></p><p>I go off about the answers received so far.</p><p></p><p>Tequila Sunrise said he used a version of this rule for his 3.x days.</p><p></p><p>Saelorn says the bonus from magic items is considered permanent after 24 hours. I can find no reference to this, maybe 4e? He also mentions PF rules for bonuses to specific skills. Tried this, not happy with my attempted implementation, dropped it.</p><p></p><p>Greenfield mentions bestow curse and permanently losing int. He then asks if Dex bonuses can be retroactive. So I remove the word "retoractive" from the int rule description and show how it would be possible for permanent Dex bonuses to be delayed until next level. Not really fun but possible. Like intelligence bonuses awaiting the next level gain.</p><p></p><p>I give an astronaut example for (albeit temporary) increased strength and the problems associated with it.</p><p></p><p>Saelorn says that most 3e characters tend to keep a handful of skills maxed out. I have to disagree, but that is my campaign, maybe I encourage it.</p><p></p><p>I mention what is good for some doesn't work for all.</p><p>But gaining a stat, even mid level, should be nothing short of a winning moment.</p><p></p><p>Greenfield gives a lecture on computers and computes that it has relevance and conjures that I only use "easy-way" rules and thus somehow am a powergamer. I seethe, but I do not respond to this troll.</p><p></p><p>I say no rule survives the table unchallenged</p><p></p><p>Greenfield accuses me of asking a question I didn't want an answer to. Tries to show that a 1 Int warrior forgets his friends and mindlessly attacks anything near him. Tries to spread the rule to gaining of feats and asks me again to answer the question about bestow curse. Then asserts his rule that cannot be challenged.</p><p></p><p>I challenge his rule.</p><p></p><p>Greenfield asserts that that is no challenge, it happened differently. Claims that 1 Int is houseplant. Lizard gets thrown around.</p><p></p><p>Saelorn refutes houseplant theory.</p><p></p><p>Greenfield claims literal for fish memory.</p><p></p><p>I ask about lizard reference, still not in my copy.</p><p></p><p>I recap what this all started with to get people back on track, still looking for an answer I can use in my game.</p><p></p><p>Greenfield says lizard is in physical phb, does not mean anything, fluff was pulled out of SRD but left in PHB. Then I realize that maybe Greenfield's is the older SRD, see when it updated to 1.1 they pulled all the IP out of it and as I was actively writing for the RPG market at the time, I needed an SRD without any IP in it so I immediately updated. I didn't realize they would also pull the fluff until later. But that just let me make my own fluff where needed.</p><p>Greenfield then warms me to keep it less personal.</p><p></p><p>I resort to magic as the answer to Greenfield's assertion that my rule is not realistic.</p><p></p><p>And then this page. I'll reply later.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ElectricDragon, post: 7180966, member: 10778"] Quick Recap of this thread up to page 5. Herzog said that decreases should be retroactive too. I agreed and modified my rule such. Runestar claimed retroactive con is easier to figure than retroactive int, I disagree, my formula is just as easy as his. Voadam asked when you permanently lose Int? You answered that with feeblemind, bestow curse, and a few creatures. There may be other things too, not important; but I modified my rule to deal with it. FranktheDM claims lessening of record keeping to not do it. I disagree and stated that in practice it has been less bookkeeping as no one has to remember and write down when they increased their intelligence and for what reason and how. Ahnehois said he uses his version of the rule. rgard said he uses it too. Corsair claims Con is not retroactive. I use his explanation to prove Int is not retroactive either. Irdeggman says, truthfully, we as DM's cheat. Possibly the best answer, but does it invalidate my rule, no. Celebrim agrees with Irdeggman accuses me of being jealous of the dragon's skill points. Untrue, but good avoidance of the issue. Greenfield asks how someone suddenly and retroactively learn skills that they never studied. I counter with how did someone who never worked out suddenly get all those strength bonuses as if they had spent that time doing it? But I modify the rule to move away from that restriction: only skills already owned and not maxed out. Greenfield asks why ask if I wasn't going to listen to the answers, like if the answer were easy I couldn't have figured it out by myself. I go off about the answers received so far. Tequila Sunrise said he used a version of this rule for his 3.x days. Saelorn says the bonus from magic items is considered permanent after 24 hours. I can find no reference to this, maybe 4e? He also mentions PF rules for bonuses to specific skills. Tried this, not happy with my attempted implementation, dropped it. Greenfield mentions bestow curse and permanently losing int. He then asks if Dex bonuses can be retroactive. So I remove the word "retoractive" from the int rule description and show how it would be possible for permanent Dex bonuses to be delayed until next level. Not really fun but possible. Like intelligence bonuses awaiting the next level gain. I give an astronaut example for (albeit temporary) increased strength and the problems associated with it. Saelorn says that most 3e characters tend to keep a handful of skills maxed out. I have to disagree, but that is my campaign, maybe I encourage it. I mention what is good for some doesn't work for all. But gaining a stat, even mid level, should be nothing short of a winning moment. Greenfield gives a lecture on computers and computes that it has relevance and conjures that I only use "easy-way" rules and thus somehow am a powergamer. I seethe, but I do not respond to this troll. I say no rule survives the table unchallenged Greenfield accuses me of asking a question I didn't want an answer to. Tries to show that a 1 Int warrior forgets his friends and mindlessly attacks anything near him. Tries to spread the rule to gaining of feats and asks me again to answer the question about bestow curse. Then asserts his rule that cannot be challenged. I challenge his rule. Greenfield asserts that that is no challenge, it happened differently. Claims that 1 Int is houseplant. Lizard gets thrown around. Saelorn refutes houseplant theory. Greenfield claims literal for fish memory. I ask about lizard reference, still not in my copy. I recap what this all started with to get people back on track, still looking for an answer I can use in my game. Greenfield says lizard is in physical phb, does not mean anything, fluff was pulled out of SRD but left in PHB. Then I realize that maybe Greenfield's is the older SRD, see when it updated to 1.1 they pulled all the IP out of it and as I was actively writing for the RPG market at the time, I needed an SRD without any IP in it so I immediately updated. I didn't realize they would also pull the fluff until later. But that just let me make my own fluff where needed. Greenfield then warms me to keep it less personal. I resort to magic as the answer to Greenfield's assertion that my rule is not realistic. And then this page. I'll reply later. [/QUOTE]
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