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Persuade, Intimidate, and Deceive used vs. PCs
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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 6747398" data-attributes="member: 6787503"><p>I don't believe roleplay should be used by the DM to gain influence over the PCs either. The players should be left in complete control of their PCs at all times barring an explicit exception in the rules. I certainly don't think social interaction, a full third of the game, constitutes such an exception.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not the argument that's been made. Specific rules limit agency in specific ways. Social interactions do not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would say that by preserving player agency throughout the social pillar of the game you are creating the space for magical effects and special abilities that can abridge that agency to exist. This makes the rules more varied and interesting.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>What sort of trouble do you see arising from preserving player agency in social interaction?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't agree that the social skills are ill defined, nor do I think they are too powerful. I think they should be potent to make them worthwhile for the PCs that have invested in them. Proficiency in these skills increases player agency in the social pillar. I believe that is their proper role.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From the point of view of a PC who is proficient in one of these skills, this approach seems too unreliable to make investment worthwhile. A player should have a good idea of what success and failure look like before s/he rolls for a check.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I haven't heard anyone complaining about social skills being too powerful. I think that's a pretty huge misunderstanding of what's being discussed. Personally, I think Charisma checks should be as decisive when called on to resolve a social interaction as other ability checks are in resolving other types of action throughout the game. Far from making them more usable, watering down the potency of Charisma checks would deprive the DM of a valuable tool for adjudication. I certainly don't think that I or others are fighting these skills, but rather that I am using them appropriately and judiciously, as they were meant to be used.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 6747398, member: 6787503"] I don't believe roleplay should be used by the DM to gain influence over the PCs either. The players should be left in complete control of their PCs at all times barring an explicit exception in the rules. I certainly don't think social interaction, a full third of the game, constitutes such an exception. That's not the argument that's been made. Specific rules limit agency in specific ways. Social interactions do not. I would say that by preserving player agency throughout the social pillar of the game you are creating the space for magical effects and special abilities that can abridge that agency to exist. This makes the rules more varied and interesting. What sort of trouble do you see arising from preserving player agency in social interaction? I don't agree that the social skills are ill defined, nor do I think they are too powerful. I think they should be potent to make them worthwhile for the PCs that have invested in them. Proficiency in these skills increases player agency in the social pillar. I believe that is their proper role. From the point of view of a PC who is proficient in one of these skills, this approach seems too unreliable to make investment worthwhile. A player should have a good idea of what success and failure look like before s/he rolls for a check. I haven't heard anyone complaining about social skills being too powerful. I think that's a pretty huge misunderstanding of what's being discussed. Personally, I think Charisma checks should be as decisive when called on to resolve a social interaction as other ability checks are in resolving other types of action throughout the game. Far from making them more usable, watering down the potency of Charisma checks would deprive the DM of a valuable tool for adjudication. I certainly don't think that I or others are fighting these skills, but rather that I am using them appropriately and judiciously, as they were meant to be used. [/QUOTE]
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