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PHB Feats taken - RESULTS
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7229772" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Hmm, starting with 2) I think we don't want to rewrite Expertise in order to buff a feat. That feels like the wrong way to go about things. Regarding 1) remember I'm arguing that the first pick is more important than the nth. We're not wrangling over expertise in an edge skill like Nature or History, we're wrangling over key skills and tools like Stealth, Perception and Thieves' Tools, and Persuasion and Deception. That Fighter used one feat, Skilled, not two. And with it, they invalidated the Rogue (because Fighters are also better single target strikers than Rogues, for better or worse). For me, it is the Rogues combination of first-class efficacy along the exploration pillar with reasonable (but by no means outstanding) efficacy in the combat pillar, that makes them appealing. That first-class efficacy is fundamentally facilitated by Expertise.</p><p></p><p>We also need to think about how much we are buffing the feat. Players take feats purposefully, with planning. So we're not going to see one edge skill get Expertise here, we're going to see our Fighter with Spy/Skilled applying Expertise to the trifecta of Thieves' Tools, Stealth and Perception. Or to Acrobatics or Athletics to make their Shield Mastery godly. I believe the correct evaluation of Expertise is that it three Expertise picks are worth hugely more than your fourth, fifth and sixth skill picks.</p><p></p><p><strong>Skilled</strong></p><p>Increase one ability score of your choice by 1, to a maximum of 20.</p><p>You can gain proficiency in any combination of <u>three</u> skills or tools of your choice, or you can choose <u>one</u> skill or tool that you are proficient with and your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses that skill or tool.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7229772, member: 71699"] Hmm, starting with 2) I think we don't want to rewrite Expertise in order to buff a feat. That feels like the wrong way to go about things. Regarding 1) remember I'm arguing that the first pick is more important than the nth. We're not wrangling over expertise in an edge skill like Nature or History, we're wrangling over key skills and tools like Stealth, Perception and Thieves' Tools, and Persuasion and Deception. That Fighter used one feat, Skilled, not two. And with it, they invalidated the Rogue (because Fighters are also better single target strikers than Rogues, for better or worse). For me, it is the Rogues combination of first-class efficacy along the exploration pillar with reasonable (but by no means outstanding) efficacy in the combat pillar, that makes them appealing. That first-class efficacy is fundamentally facilitated by Expertise. We also need to think about how much we are buffing the feat. Players take feats purposefully, with planning. So we're not going to see one edge skill get Expertise here, we're going to see our Fighter with Spy/Skilled applying Expertise to the trifecta of Thieves' Tools, Stealth and Perception. Or to Acrobatics or Athletics to make their Shield Mastery godly. I believe the correct evaluation of Expertise is that it three Expertise picks are worth hugely more than your fourth, fifth and sixth skill picks. [B]Skilled[/B] Increase one ability score of your choice by 1, to a maximum of 20. You can gain proficiency in any combination of [U]three[/U] skills or tools of your choice, or you can choose [U]one[/U] skill or tool that you are proficient with and your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses that skill or tool. [/QUOTE]
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