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PHB Feats taken - RESULTS
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7231621" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Regarding skills, this feat has <em>lower</em> value to a Bard or Rogue than it does to other classes, because the 7th to 12th skill picks are worth less than the 1st through 6th. Similarly, the 5th through 10th applications of expertise are worth less than the 1st through 4th. That is because players will prioritise what is most important to them. Also, unless they rolled godly ability scores they will start picking skills that are away from their best modifiers, making those skills less impactful.</p><p></p><p>Conversely, skills with high modifiers are much more valuable than those with low ones. For example, +4 Stealth can't be relied on and is therefore not that relevant. +6 starts to be reliable and becomes very relevant. I believe people frequently make the mistake of assuming that taking one more skill is better than taking expertise in an existing skill. Given racial, class and background skills to cover a character's priorities, the opportunity to take expertise is worth more than the additional skill picks. The least fix to make Trained work is to put 3 points on the cost of expertise.</p><p></p><p></p><p>An increase to the power of feats entails an increase to the power of a feat pick. Think about it this way, at 1st level Rogues got Expertise and Fighters got Fighting Style and Second Wind. Then at 6th level, Rogues get the second half of Expertise for four skills total, but via Trained, Fighters do one better - they get expertise on five skills. Rogues have been somewhat over-shadowed, Fighters have been pushed up a notch in power.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For a small fraction of their career - at 15th level, outside most supported content - they will have a Wisdom save. In exchange, they lived with an Intelligence save - relevant for only 1% of spells and monster abilities - for 14 levels. Sneak attack doesn't quite keep Rogues on par with Fighters in combat, and few combats are brought to a conclusion by dodging. What makes Rogues compelling is their combination of reasonable (but not top-tier) combat abilities with good (second to Bard) social abilities, and top-tier (albeit, impinged on by casters) exploration abilities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7231621, member: 71699"] Regarding skills, this feat has [I]lower[/I] value to a Bard or Rogue than it does to other classes, because the 7th to 12th skill picks are worth less than the 1st through 6th. Similarly, the 5th through 10th applications of expertise are worth less than the 1st through 4th. That is because players will prioritise what is most important to them. Also, unless they rolled godly ability scores they will start picking skills that are away from their best modifiers, making those skills less impactful. Conversely, skills with high modifiers are much more valuable than those with low ones. For example, +4 Stealth can't be relied on and is therefore not that relevant. +6 starts to be reliable and becomes very relevant. I believe people frequently make the mistake of assuming that taking one more skill is better than taking expertise in an existing skill. Given racial, class and background skills to cover a character's priorities, the opportunity to take expertise is worth more than the additional skill picks. The least fix to make Trained work is to put 3 points on the cost of expertise. An increase to the power of feats entails an increase to the power of a feat pick. Think about it this way, at 1st level Rogues got Expertise and Fighters got Fighting Style and Second Wind. Then at 6th level, Rogues get the second half of Expertise for four skills total, but via Trained, Fighters do one better - they get expertise on five skills. Rogues have been somewhat over-shadowed, Fighters have been pushed up a notch in power. For a small fraction of their career - at 15th level, outside most supported content - they will have a Wisdom save. In exchange, they lived with an Intelligence save - relevant for only 1% of spells and monster abilities - for 14 levels. Sneak attack doesn't quite keep Rogues on par with Fighters in combat, and few combats are brought to a conclusion by dodging. What makes Rogues compelling is their combination of reasonable (but not top-tier) combat abilities with good (second to Bard) social abilities, and top-tier (albeit, impinged on by casters) exploration abilities. [/QUOTE]
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