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<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7121212" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>I'm honestly fairly flexible, because they both have strengths and weaknesses.</p><p></p><p>I love the new shared-creation model, especially for impromptu or one-shot play. Time concerns tend to lead me in this direction lately.</p><p></p><p>I don't share all of [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION]'s problems (which I note seem to address story-building rather than world-building) with them because I've seen most of those same problems (or an equivalent) in traditional play as well. I no longer consider D&D (or most traditional rpgs) a good system for stories, because the DM has to keep either breaking it or railroading to keep a good story going. Not that a good story can't come from D&D play, but it can also come from a football or chess game. For a game to be a "story game", I think it should have as the goal or artifact of play...a story. Call me crazy. </p><p></p><p>To me, I think games like Fate, or the PbtA games are fine or even wonderful for world-building or setting exploration (to some extent, that's what they are about). Fate can be impromptu (as the Tabletop episode appears to be) or you can prep it ahead of time like traditional rpgs. While they are both much more in tune with the fiction/narrative than a traditional rpg, I <em>don't</em> consider them <em>story games</em> because neither has any particular inherent mechanical tendency to close the storylines that can be opened during play.</p><p></p><p>However, I think "joint setting creation" is a new art, and I don't think it's perfected. I ran <em>Dungeon World</em> for about 6 sessions, IIRC. By the end, fiction/setting information that had already been established ended up getting in the way of sensible resolution and creation of new information. Sure, the DW fans say you can talk your way out of this, and you <em>can</em>, but at some point it begins to get silly. (Of course, that can happen with some TV shows as well.) Fate, at least gives you the option of dialing it back.</p><p></p><p>For some types of premise, though, joint creation doesn't seem to work as well. Mysteries, a la <em>Gumshoe</em> seem, to my mind, to require being prepared ahead of time. (I suppose you could leave room for some Mad-Libs input form players, does it matter what the Drive-Through attendent's name is?) At least, that's been my experience.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 7121212, member: 6688937"] I'm honestly fairly flexible, because they both have strengths and weaknesses. I love the new shared-creation model, especially for impromptu or one-shot play. Time concerns tend to lead me in this direction lately. I don't share all of [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION]'s problems (which I note seem to address story-building rather than world-building) with them because I've seen most of those same problems (or an equivalent) in traditional play as well. I no longer consider D&D (or most traditional rpgs) a good system for stories, because the DM has to keep either breaking it or railroading to keep a good story going. Not that a good story can't come from D&D play, but it can also come from a football or chess game. For a game to be a "story game", I think it should have as the goal or artifact of play...a story. Call me crazy. To me, I think games like Fate, or the PbtA games are fine or even wonderful for world-building or setting exploration (to some extent, that's what they are about). Fate can be impromptu (as the Tabletop episode appears to be) or you can prep it ahead of time like traditional rpgs. While they are both much more in tune with the fiction/narrative than a traditional rpg, I [I]don't[/I] consider them [I]story games[/I] because neither has any particular inherent mechanical tendency to close the storylines that can be opened during play. However, I think "joint setting creation" is a new art, and I don't think it's perfected. I ran [I]Dungeon World[/I] for about 6 sessions, IIRC. By the end, fiction/setting information that had already been established ended up getting in the way of sensible resolution and creation of new information. Sure, the DW fans say you can talk your way out of this, and you [I]can[/I], but at some point it begins to get silly. (Of course, that can happen with some TV shows as well.) Fate, at least gives you the option of dialing it back. For some types of premise, though, joint creation doesn't seem to work as well. Mysteries, a la [I]Gumshoe[/I] seem, to my mind, to require being prepared ahead of time. (I suppose you could leave room for some Mad-Libs input form players, does it matter what the Drive-Through attendent's name is?) At least, that's been my experience. [/QUOTE]
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