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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 7629255" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>Which is itself another untennable stance. As stated, it only takes one to falsify. I have met many who not only don't want adversary authority, but their fun is diminished when said authority is shared, because they may have to use it. I have found most of my friends do NOT appreciate being put on the spot to be in the authorial stance. </p><p></p><p>It's worth noting that I often see (for lack of a better term) disciples of Mr. Baker stating shared GMing as if it is universally good. It isn't. It's good for some, bad for many (perhaps most), and is certainly uncomfortable for most groups I've tried it with.</p><p></p><p>I should rephrase for clarity, my prior...</p><p>A player declares what their character attempts, while the authority uses the rules and their common and story senses to determine what they accomplish. The authority might be another player, might be the group as a whole, might be a table which is rolled against... but the distinction of an RPG being a game is that lack of authorial stance on the <u>outcome </u>of at least some actions.</p><p></p><p>None of your examples are GM-less - they're all variations on variable authority. Noting the Wick games... essentially, HotBlooded and Blood & Honor rotate authority turn-by-turn, but the player, unless they win the roll, does NOT control the outcome. And, due to the bidding, even the winner seldom controls the outcome entirely. Never play these with someone you cannot trust to stay inside the boundaries of inoffense to others...</p><p></p><p>Let's address the AWE/PBTA use case...</p><p>AWE/PBTA typically presumes several key things:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Assent may be assumed on any narration unless the authority states otherwise.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The authority should stop for resolution any narration that constitutes a move.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The authority should stop any narration that is not in line with prior narration by asking suitable questions</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The authority should encourage participation by all, usually by asking questions of inactive players</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The authority should narrate NPCs in a manner consistent with the above, sometimes allowing players to act as authority towards his/her NPCs.</li> </ul><p></p><p>The wink to melt her heart bit is fine, right up until the GM says "roll ___." In if he allows it without roll, he's <em>still using the rules</em>... because he doesn't see it as a move. On the other hand, if the character doing so has been defined as a being of no romantic appeal and no sexual appeal at all, the GM is perfectly reasonable to say, "and what about your repellant contenance?" or even to put it to a group vote, or even deny flatly, for violating the existing narrative. </p><p></p><p>But, until the authority (in most PBTA, a GM) remains silent after, it's still describing the <em>attempt</em>, not the outcome.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 7629255, member: 6779310"] Which is itself another untennable stance. As stated, it only takes one to falsify. I have met many who not only don't want adversary authority, but their fun is diminished when said authority is shared, because they may have to use it. I have found most of my friends do NOT appreciate being put on the spot to be in the authorial stance. It's worth noting that I often see (for lack of a better term) disciples of Mr. Baker stating shared GMing as if it is universally good. It isn't. It's good for some, bad for many (perhaps most), and is certainly uncomfortable for most groups I've tried it with. I should rephrase for clarity, my prior... A player declares what their character attempts, while the authority uses the rules and their common and story senses to determine what they accomplish. The authority might be another player, might be the group as a whole, might be a table which is rolled against... but the distinction of an RPG being a game is that lack of authorial stance on the [U]outcome [/U]of at least some actions. None of your examples are GM-less - they're all variations on variable authority. Noting the Wick games... essentially, HotBlooded and Blood & Honor rotate authority turn-by-turn, but the player, unless they win the roll, does NOT control the outcome. And, due to the bidding, even the winner seldom controls the outcome entirely. Never play these with someone you cannot trust to stay inside the boundaries of inoffense to others... Let's address the AWE/PBTA use case... AWE/PBTA typically presumes several key things: [list][*]Assent may be assumed on any narration unless the authority states otherwise. [*]The authority should stop for resolution any narration that constitutes a move. [*]The authority should stop any narration that is not in line with prior narration by asking suitable questions [*]The authority should encourage participation by all, usually by asking questions of inactive players [*]The authority should narrate NPCs in a manner consistent with the above, sometimes allowing players to act as authority towards his/her NPCs.[/list] The wink to melt her heart bit is fine, right up until the GM says "roll ___." In if he allows it without roll, he's [i]still using the rules[/i]... because he doesn't see it as a move. On the other hand, if the character doing so has been defined as a being of no romantic appeal and no sexual appeal at all, the GM is perfectly reasonable to say, "and what about your repellant contenance?" or even to put it to a group vote, or even deny flatly, for violating the existing narrative. But, until the authority (in most PBTA, a GM) remains silent after, it's still describing the [I]attempt[/I], not the outcome. [/QUOTE]
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