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[Players Chosen] Do You Have What It Takes To Join The Nameless Legion?
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<blockquote data-quote="Harvey" data-source="post: 2386794" data-attributes="member: 28968"><p>OK, here's where I am with the Sudden metamagic feat issue:</p><p></p><p>For a <em>ring of spell storing</em>: "Metamagic versions of spells take up storage space equal to their spell level modfied by the metamagic feat."</p><p></p><p>So, if you store an Empowered Magic Missile in the ring (or whatever), it would take up a 3rd level slot (1st level spell for Magic Missile +2 for Empower Spell). Thanee got this perfectly right, but I wanted to reiterate for sake of clarification.</p><p></p><p>For Sudden Empower, let's take a look at the rules: For a <em>ring of spell storing</em>, it also says "A spellcaster can cast any spells into the ring, so long as the total spell levels do not add up to more than three." For Sudden Empower, it says "Once per day, you can apply the effect of the Empower Spell feat to any spell you cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time." So, you can blow your 1/day use of Sudden Empower to cast a Sudden Empowered Magic Missile into the ring of storing. There is an Empowered Magic Missile in the Ring with a spell level of 1 that does 1.5X the damage of a normal Magic Missile. The ring is still a use activation item, so casting that stored Magic Missile is a standard action. You've used your Sudden Empower feat that day. The next day, you can store a second Sudden Empowered Magic Missile, and the third day, a third one.</p><p></p><p>Benefit: You have a more powerful spell in a stored area.</p><p>Downside: Blown feat slot (which I believe is moot for the warmage); It would take three days to fill up the ring.</p><p></p><p>For the Ring of Spell Storing (and only for spell storing) I would rule it is OK. For Thanee's scenario of crafting magic items, I would apply different rules. </p><p></p><p>First off, my thinking for the above approval: Since you can only use a sudden metamagic feat once per day, the overpowering is really due to the fact I'm allowing you to start off with the ring (or whatever) fully charged. What's the worse case scenario for AmorFati's Screech? He has a Ring of Minor Spell Storing, which has three levels of spells, and a spear of spell storing, which also has three levels. So, he could cast, at worse, two Sudden Empowered, Sudden Maximize, Sudden Quicken, Sudden Widen fireballs into the items. What results is a fireball that does 6 points of damage/level with a range of 800 ft + 80 ft/level and a radius of 40 ft and is cast as a free action.</p><p></p><p>So, let's say, following the worse case scenario, it's your first fight. And over the course of it, Screech uses up both fireballs. He can only refill up one of the two items again, and that's assuming he hasn't already made use of the sudden feats already for his traditional spells. If he has, he has to wait two days to refill those items up, which means he can't apply the feat to his normal castings in those two days.</p><p></p><p>For crafting items, it's too powerful. With one casting, he'd be able to create a wand of Empowered, Maximized, Quickened, Widened fireballs w/ 50 charges? As a cost of a 3rd level spell? That's insane. I'd either say a) the process if creating a scroll, wand, etc. is to delicate to allow a sudden spell to be cast into the item or b) the level of the spell is modified per the non-sudden version of the metamagic feat, noting that the spell level caps for scrolls, wands, etc. still need to be followed. The more I think about it, the more I favor (a).</p><p></p><p>So, for spell storing, or for use with the spell <em>imbue with spell ability</em>, then yes it's allowed. For use in any sort of craft, then no.</p><p></p><p>FYI: I can't believe how vague some of the info is on crafting and metamagic feats. There should be something on all of this in Complete Arcane (or at least the errata).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harvey, post: 2386794, member: 28968"] OK, here's where I am with the Sudden metamagic feat issue: For a [I]ring of spell storing[/I]: "Metamagic versions of spells take up storage space equal to their spell level modfied by the metamagic feat." So, if you store an Empowered Magic Missile in the ring (or whatever), it would take up a 3rd level slot (1st level spell for Magic Missile +2 for Empower Spell). Thanee got this perfectly right, but I wanted to reiterate for sake of clarification. For Sudden Empower, let's take a look at the rules: For a [I]ring of spell storing[/I], it also says "A spellcaster can cast any spells into the ring, so long as the total spell levels do not add up to more than three." For Sudden Empower, it says "Once per day, you can apply the effect of the Empower Spell feat to any spell you cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time." So, you can blow your 1/day use of Sudden Empower to cast a Sudden Empowered Magic Missile into the ring of storing. There is an Empowered Magic Missile in the Ring with a spell level of 1 that does 1.5X the damage of a normal Magic Missile. The ring is still a use activation item, so casting that stored Magic Missile is a standard action. You've used your Sudden Empower feat that day. The next day, you can store a second Sudden Empowered Magic Missile, and the third day, a third one. Benefit: You have a more powerful spell in a stored area. Downside: Blown feat slot (which I believe is moot for the warmage); It would take three days to fill up the ring. For the Ring of Spell Storing (and only for spell storing) I would rule it is OK. For Thanee's scenario of crafting magic items, I would apply different rules. First off, my thinking for the above approval: Since you can only use a sudden metamagic feat once per day, the overpowering is really due to the fact I'm allowing you to start off with the ring (or whatever) fully charged. What's the worse case scenario for AmorFati's Screech? He has a Ring of Minor Spell Storing, which has three levels of spells, and a spear of spell storing, which also has three levels. So, he could cast, at worse, two Sudden Empowered, Sudden Maximize, Sudden Quicken, Sudden Widen fireballs into the items. What results is a fireball that does 6 points of damage/level with a range of 800 ft + 80 ft/level and a radius of 40 ft and is cast as a free action. So, let's say, following the worse case scenario, it's your first fight. And over the course of it, Screech uses up both fireballs. He can only refill up one of the two items again, and that's assuming he hasn't already made use of the sudden feats already for his traditional spells. If he has, he has to wait two days to refill those items up, which means he can't apply the feat to his normal castings in those two days. For crafting items, it's too powerful. With one casting, he'd be able to create a wand of Empowered, Maximized, Quickened, Widened fireballs w/ 50 charges? As a cost of a 3rd level spell? That's insane. I'd either say a) the process if creating a scroll, wand, etc. is to delicate to allow a sudden spell to be cast into the item or b) the level of the spell is modified per the non-sudden version of the metamagic feat, noting that the spell level caps for scrolls, wands, etc. still need to be followed. The more I think about it, the more I favor (a). So, for spell storing, or for use with the spell [I]imbue with spell ability[/I], then yes it's allowed. For use in any sort of craft, then no. FYI: I can't believe how vague some of the info is on crafting and metamagic feats. There should be something on all of this in Complete Arcane (or at least the errata). [/QUOTE]
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