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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7291008" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>You missed both 3E and 4E, apparently:</p><p></p><p>Third edition brought the great standardization of mechanics, so all ability scores gave a consistent modifier and all uncertainty was resolved with a d20 check. This is in direct contrast to earlier editions, which were an assortment of ad hoc systems that often used different dice (although many of the core systems still came down to the d20 roll, even then). The major upshot was that the players could usually discern what sort of check would be necessary, even before the DM asked it. The biggest job for the DM, in determining how to resolve any action, was just in setting the DC for the check. And since there were a lot of examples in the book about what sorts of DCs corresponded to which sorts of tasks, it wasn't hard for players to guess both <em>which</em> skill applied <em>and</em> that the DC was within the d20 range of uncertainty such that the roll would be necessary.</p><p></p><p>Fourth edition attempted to standardize the play experience, by getting rid of things like house rules and making the math even more transparent. It might sound terrible, but their goal was to make it easier for players to find games without requiring a huge adjustment period, so I can respect it from that angle.</p><p>I don't usually mind if they roll immediately, but sometimes I have to ignore the result when it wouldn't matter (because either success or failure is guaranteed). If you ignore enough of their check results, eventually they might get the hint and stop being so quick to roll.</p><p></p><p>The bigger problem is when they roll before they describe how they're approaching a problem. "Survival 24" is meaningless, if "survival 24, I'm trying to find some edible roots or berries," would be a failure and "survival 24, I'm trying to catch one of those weird rat things we saw before," would be a success.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7291008, member: 6775031"] You missed both 3E and 4E, apparently: Third edition brought the great standardization of mechanics, so all ability scores gave a consistent modifier and all uncertainty was resolved with a d20 check. This is in direct contrast to earlier editions, which were an assortment of ad hoc systems that often used different dice (although many of the core systems still came down to the d20 roll, even then). The major upshot was that the players could usually discern what sort of check would be necessary, even before the DM asked it. The biggest job for the DM, in determining how to resolve any action, was just in setting the DC for the check. And since there were a lot of examples in the book about what sorts of DCs corresponded to which sorts of tasks, it wasn't hard for players to guess both [I]which[/I] skill applied [I]and[/I] that the DC was within the d20 range of uncertainty such that the roll would be necessary. Fourth edition attempted to standardize the play experience, by getting rid of things like house rules and making the math even more transparent. It might sound terrible, but their goal was to make it easier for players to find games without requiring a huge adjustment period, so I can respect it from that angle. I don't usually mind if they roll immediately, but sometimes I have to ignore the result when it wouldn't matter (because either success or failure is guaranteed). If you ignore enough of their check results, eventually they might get the hint and stop being so quick to roll. The bigger problem is when they roll before they describe how they're approaching a problem. "Survival 24" is meaningless, if "survival 24, I'm trying to find some edible roots or berries," would be a failure and "survival 24, I'm trying to catch one of those weird rat things we saw before," would be a success. [/QUOTE]
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