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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7299967" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>I think you're missing the argument. "Good roleplay" is synonymous with "an approach which is likely to achieve a stated goal". It's not based on flavor text; as you say, the narrative quality of how the idea is described is irrelevant. The issue is that the player doesn't <em>know</em> which approach is likely to achieve a stated goal, even if their character probably <em>should</em>.</p><p></p><p>As an example, imagine there's a death knight coming to kill the princess, and we want her to come with us so we can protect her. As a player, I may not know what argument would convince her, if I'm not good at reading social cues. If my character is a noble bard with expertise in persuasion, then <em>they</em> probably <em>should</em> know what argument to use. By going straight to the roll without saying what argument they're using, it allows the character to succeed on their own merit rather than those of the player.</p><p></p><p>If my rogue has expertise in investigation, then it's not really fair to expect the <em>player</em> to come up with the brilliant idea of exactly <em>how</em> they want to search the room. The <em>character</em> should know better.</p><p></p><p>At least, that's the basic argument. I'm not actually arguing for or against either side, but the logical extension of the other side would involve getting rid of skills entirely. I'm not sure if anyone remembers, but the inclusion of social skills in 3.0 was hugely controversial for this very reason.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7299967, member: 6775031"] I think you're missing the argument. "Good roleplay" is synonymous with "an approach which is likely to achieve a stated goal". It's not based on flavor text; as you say, the narrative quality of how the idea is described is irrelevant. The issue is that the player doesn't [I]know[/I] which approach is likely to achieve a stated goal, even if their character probably [I]should[/I]. As an example, imagine there's a death knight coming to kill the princess, and we want her to come with us so we can protect her. As a player, I may not know what argument would convince her, if I'm not good at reading social cues. If my character is a noble bard with expertise in persuasion, then [I]they[/I] probably [I]should[/I] know what argument to use. By going straight to the roll without saying what argument they're using, it allows the character to succeed on their own merit rather than those of the player. If my rogue has expertise in investigation, then it's not really fair to expect the [I]player[/I] to come up with the brilliant idea of exactly [I]how[/I] they want to search the room. The [I]character[/I] should know better. At least, that's the basic argument. I'm not actually arguing for or against either side, but the logical extension of the other side would involve getting rid of skills entirely. I'm not sure if anyone remembers, but the inclusion of social skills in 3.0 was hugely controversial for this very reason. [/QUOTE]
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