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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7300107" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>From a player's perspective, they have one role in the basic conversation of the game as outlined in the rules: Describe what they want to do. That is, therefore, playing the game regardless of whether the player then follows up with an ability check the DM asks for (or doesn't ask for, as the case may be for some). You don't get to say that one is playing the DM and the other is playing the game. That is dismissive of another's approach on top of being factually wrong.</p><p></p><p>Describing what you want to do is communicating a goal and approach. "I do X to accomplish Y." The DM then judges whether the approach is suitable to the goal, unsuitable, or whether the outcome is uncertain. In the latter case, he or she calls for a roll of some kind.</p><p></p><p>A simple statement of goal and approach is not "bells and whistles." Nor do I advocate the DM giving any sort of advantage to the player for acting or writing ability or scientific knowledge or anything of that sort. But if a player removes uncertainty in the situation by describing an approach to a goal that is appropriate to the circumstances as established, then I will say the character automatically succeeds. It is therefore a good strategy in my view for the player to pay attention, describe a reasonably good approach to the goal, and use whatever resources he or she or the party has to avoid rolling. Rolling is the last resort.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends on the situation, which the DM is tasked with judging while being reasonably fair and consistent.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're describing a DM who isn't being reasonably fair and consistent as far as I can tell. Which says nothing of the actual approach. What does say something of the approach is the DMG: "By balancing the use of dice against deciding on success, you can encourage players to strike a balance between relying on their bonuses and abilities and paying attention to the game and immersing themselves in the world. Remember that dice don't run your game - you do. Dice are like rules. At any time, you can decide that a players action is automatically successful... By the same token, a bad plan or unfortunate circumstances can transform the easiest task into an impossibility..." Of the three approaches that are discussed, this is the one that is not called out as having a potential drawback as well.</p><p></p><p>Those who criticize this approach appear to always be imagining some kind of awful DM in their past. I'm sorry you had to endure that, if that's the case. I've had some bad DMs, too. On the upside, that gives me insight into what not to do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7300107, member: 97077"] From a player's perspective, they have one role in the basic conversation of the game as outlined in the rules: Describe what they want to do. That is, therefore, playing the game regardless of whether the player then follows up with an ability check the DM asks for (or doesn't ask for, as the case may be for some). You don't get to say that one is playing the DM and the other is playing the game. That is dismissive of another's approach on top of being factually wrong. Describing what you want to do is communicating a goal and approach. "I do X to accomplish Y." The DM then judges whether the approach is suitable to the goal, unsuitable, or whether the outcome is uncertain. In the latter case, he or she calls for a roll of some kind. A simple statement of goal and approach is not "bells and whistles." Nor do I advocate the DM giving any sort of advantage to the player for acting or writing ability or scientific knowledge or anything of that sort. But if a player removes uncertainty in the situation by describing an approach to a goal that is appropriate to the circumstances as established, then I will say the character automatically succeeds. It is therefore a good strategy in my view for the player to pay attention, describe a reasonably good approach to the goal, and use whatever resources he or she or the party has to avoid rolling. Rolling is the last resort. It depends on the situation, which the DM is tasked with judging while being reasonably fair and consistent. You're describing a DM who isn't being reasonably fair and consistent as far as I can tell. Which says nothing of the actual approach. What does say something of the approach is the DMG: "By balancing the use of dice against deciding on success, you can encourage players to strike a balance between relying on their bonuses and abilities and paying attention to the game and immersing themselves in the world. Remember that dice don't run your game - you do. Dice are like rules. At any time, you can decide that a players action is automatically successful... By the same token, a bad plan or unfortunate circumstances can transform the easiest task into an impossibility..." Of the three approaches that are discussed, this is the one that is not called out as having a potential drawback as well. Those who criticize this approach appear to always be imagining some kind of awful DM in their past. I'm sorry you had to endure that, if that's the case. I've had some bad DMs, too. On the upside, that gives me insight into what not to do. [/QUOTE]
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