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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7300663" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>Well i can surely see how you want to view it but to my point of view ALL of those approach characatures have drawbacks whether or not they were listed there or acknowledged by their proponents. </p><p></p><p>It takes a certain state of hubris to describe "the way i do things" as without any drawbacks as far as things of this level of variety and complexity. </p><p></p><p>Even the DMG describes those drawbacks not in terms of certainty for those two cases but as might or can etc. Much like here at various times the various sides have defended with claims of "yes that can haooen but does not have to."</p><p></p><p>More to the point, in fact, "both" (i think more correctly "all" or "most") the sides of this discussion are describing middle ground approach in the DMG where sonetimes the dice are used and sometimes auto success fail are used. That is not the core or even a major part of the dispute. All describe mixed aporoaches to those three characatures in the DNG.</p><p></p><p>The difference is the apparent degree to which the players skill and the characters skill is used as far as that balancing act.</p><p></p><p>One side appears to be using (often enough) the players skill at picking the right action (for some skills of certain types) as a gatekeeper that keeps the character capability out of play often enough to make it a good strategic ploy (which seens to establish the auto fail descriptive result is being decided on less or by different standards than the auto success is, which seems to not be living up to the implied balancing act of the DMG Middle Ground approach... Certainly not "ByTheSame Token" - which some might describe as a drawback.)</p><p></p><p>The other side(s) appear to want both the player sjill at description and character skill to play a role in most of the resolution process, neither held "hostage" to the other (waiting for the other to let them even get a turn to influence results) so to speak but both working in tandem.</p><p></p><p>So not at all a case of midfle ground dmg vs the others, not at all a case of has drawbacks vs not has drawbacks as some may want to view it.</p><p></p><p>As far as i can tell, at least.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sent from my VS995 using <a href="http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=93205" target="_blank">EN World mobile app</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7300663, member: 6919838"] Well i can surely see how you want to view it but to my point of view ALL of those approach characatures have drawbacks whether or not they were listed there or acknowledged by their proponents. It takes a certain state of hubris to describe "the way i do things" as without any drawbacks as far as things of this level of variety and complexity. Even the DMG describes those drawbacks not in terms of certainty for those two cases but as might or can etc. Much like here at various times the various sides have defended with claims of "yes that can haooen but does not have to." More to the point, in fact, "both" (i think more correctly "all" or "most") the sides of this discussion are describing middle ground approach in the DMG where sonetimes the dice are used and sometimes auto success fail are used. That is not the core or even a major part of the dispute. All describe mixed aporoaches to those three characatures in the DNG. The difference is the apparent degree to which the players skill and the characters skill is used as far as that balancing act. One side appears to be using (often enough) the players skill at picking the right action (for some skills of certain types) as a gatekeeper that keeps the character capability out of play often enough to make it a good strategic ploy (which seens to establish the auto fail descriptive result is being decided on less or by different standards than the auto success is, which seems to not be living up to the implied balancing act of the DMG Middle Ground approach... Certainly not "ByTheSame Token" - which some might describe as a drawback.) The other side(s) appear to want both the player sjill at description and character skill to play a role in most of the resolution process, neither held "hostage" to the other (waiting for the other to let them even get a turn to influence results) so to speak but both working in tandem. So not at all a case of midfle ground dmg vs the others, not at all a case of has drawbacks vs not has drawbacks as some may want to view it. As far as i can tell, at least. Sent from my VS995 using [URL=http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=93205]EN World mobile app[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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