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<blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 4910238" data-attributes="member: 15538"><p>Well, that's exactly the point. Simply putting the princess in a LG nunnery really changes the game. You can take the same "rescue the princess plot" and everything is different. Suddenly there are fewer limits to what behavior is permitted by the PCs. Innocent bystanders? Too bad for them. And the princess herself... didn't I mention she's being tried as a criminal? She's an assassin in the service of some evil power, and once you rescue her, it's not a given she is going to go along with the Baron's plans... perhaps she can make an alternative offer to the PCs. Suppose the PC's rescue plan is to detonate the entire tower, then recover the princess's remains and resurrect her. That's certainly different. Or the PCs slay some knights, defeat a good wizard, and brutally murder the lady-in-waiting who helps the princess escape (she's a witness). If the princess refuses to be rescued, or to go along with the PC's plans, they beat her up and stick her in a bag. </p><p></p><p>The main difference is that the PCs act, well, evil. Either the players are up to the next or they are not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Correct. Just as rescue X, recover X, or defend X says little, as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My experience is rather different... but then, I ran a game in which a rescue-the-damsel situation did not go off as planned, the players took too long, and the damsel agreed to marry the evil knight and on he wedding knight was impregnated with a Tainted Scion. What do you do with an innocent damsel who is completely under the thrall of a fiendish unborn creature, itself yet guilty of nothing?</p><p></p><p>And then there was the time I let the PC's get a hold of a magical item that would let them command undead, which they used on a death knight. They commanded him to destroy one of their enemies. Which he did, along with numerous innocent bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time. That, along with several other questionable acts, led to a loss of Good alignment for the party wizard.</p><p></p><p>I think I've heard of a description of the modern military as something along the lines of being able to apply the right amount and the right kind of firepower at the right place and time. </p><p></p><p>It's true, "slay the orc horde" doesn't have much moral significance. Unless you are a member of said horde, it only makes sense. But how it is done, how the aftermath is dealt with, and most importantly, how PC goals are met, that really changes things.</p><p></p><p>The real problem with most evil campaigns is the same problem with most good campaigns: The PCs don't actually have goals.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Really? That could be fun for a lark, but playing unhinged sociopaths actually strikes me as fairly boring. I find the idea of being a mad cultist about as interesting as a Lawful Stupid paladin. I could get into a PC who had their own reasons for wishing the end of the world, but that kind of game is actually a fair amount of work. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you want to play an evil campaign, I suggest watching:</p><p>- Payback</p><p>- Reservoir Dogs</p><p>- A Boy and His Dog</p><p>- A Clockwork Orange</p><p>- Pitch Black</p><p>- Pirates of the Carribean</p><p>- X-Men Origins: Wolverine</p><p>- Watchmen</p><p>- episodes of Blackadder</p><p>- ConAir</p><p>- Silence of the Lambs</p><p></p><p>Because not evey evil character is a weirdo in a hockey mask. Just as good comes in all shades, evil comes in all shades. Running a game of all Joker-style psychopaths would ultimately be kind of boring, since they would simply be one-upping each other, but if you threw in an actual demon or something, whom the psychopath tolerates but does not trust for a second, plus a character criminal who has simply forgotten their human limits, a tortured antihero, and something monstrous and inhuman, then you've got a gang.</p><p></p><p>It's a stereotype that good = reactive, evil = active. I think that's basically just not true. Many evil characters spend a lot of time on the run, and many stories focus on proactive, good characters, such as the Grail quest, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, and even the Ghostbusters (remember, they started their business to finance their research and sloppy bachelor lifestyles).</p><p></p><p>Virtually every plot can be a Good plot or an Evil plot. All you have to do is figure out a way to get PC skin in the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pawsplay, post: 4910238, member: 15538"] Well, that's exactly the point. Simply putting the princess in a LG nunnery really changes the game. You can take the same "rescue the princess plot" and everything is different. Suddenly there are fewer limits to what behavior is permitted by the PCs. Innocent bystanders? Too bad for them. And the princess herself... didn't I mention she's being tried as a criminal? She's an assassin in the service of some evil power, and once you rescue her, it's not a given she is going to go along with the Baron's plans... perhaps she can make an alternative offer to the PCs. Suppose the PC's rescue plan is to detonate the entire tower, then recover the princess's remains and resurrect her. That's certainly different. Or the PCs slay some knights, defeat a good wizard, and brutally murder the lady-in-waiting who helps the princess escape (she's a witness). If the princess refuses to be rescued, or to go along with the PC's plans, they beat her up and stick her in a bag. The main difference is that the PCs act, well, evil. Either the players are up to the next or they are not. Correct. Just as rescue X, recover X, or defend X says little, as well. My experience is rather different... but then, I ran a game in which a rescue-the-damsel situation did not go off as planned, the players took too long, and the damsel agreed to marry the evil knight and on he wedding knight was impregnated with a Tainted Scion. What do you do with an innocent damsel who is completely under the thrall of a fiendish unborn creature, itself yet guilty of nothing? And then there was the time I let the PC's get a hold of a magical item that would let them command undead, which they used on a death knight. They commanded him to destroy one of their enemies. Which he did, along with numerous innocent bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time. That, along with several other questionable acts, led to a loss of Good alignment for the party wizard. I think I've heard of a description of the modern military as something along the lines of being able to apply the right amount and the right kind of firepower at the right place and time. It's true, "slay the orc horde" doesn't have much moral significance. Unless you are a member of said horde, it only makes sense. But how it is done, how the aftermath is dealt with, and most importantly, how PC goals are met, that really changes things. The real problem with most evil campaigns is the same problem with most good campaigns: The PCs don't actually have goals. Really? That could be fun for a lark, but playing unhinged sociopaths actually strikes me as fairly boring. I find the idea of being a mad cultist about as interesting as a Lawful Stupid paladin. I could get into a PC who had their own reasons for wishing the end of the world, but that kind of game is actually a fair amount of work. If you want to play an evil campaign, I suggest watching: - Payback - Reservoir Dogs - A Boy and His Dog - A Clockwork Orange - Pitch Black - Pirates of the Carribean - X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Watchmen - episodes of Blackadder - ConAir - Silence of the Lambs Because not evey evil character is a weirdo in a hockey mask. Just as good comes in all shades, evil comes in all shades. Running a game of all Joker-style psychopaths would ultimately be kind of boring, since they would simply be one-upping each other, but if you threw in an actual demon or something, whom the psychopath tolerates but does not trust for a second, plus a character criminal who has simply forgotten their human limits, a tortured antihero, and something monstrous and inhuman, then you've got a gang. It's a stereotype that good = reactive, evil = active. I think that's basically just not true. Many evil characters spend a lot of time on the run, and many stories focus on proactive, good characters, such as the Grail quest, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, and even the Ghostbusters (remember, they started their business to finance their research and sloppy bachelor lifestyles). Virtually every plot can be a Good plot or an Evil plot. All you have to do is figure out a way to get PC skin in the game. [/QUOTE]
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