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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9183485" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>If you are talking about bastions as a way for players to spend money it <em>is</em> a gold sink.. Unless we admit that the expenditures are inconsequential and likely pointless, but that counters the heart of your point about a way for players to engage in spending. Barring additional revelations from wotc 2024 is still targeting extreme stormwind levels of deliberately negative CharOp with no magic items as the baseline PC capability expectation yet the bastions inject quite a number of no consumable ones in an extremely skewed manner. Worse still is that the injections are ones where the players simply <em>bypass</em> the gm to add the item they want.</p><p></p><p>The ad&d comparison is not valid because it effectively lacked a skill system and doing things like gaining a keep/chapel/etc allowed a player to leverage it as justification for why they should be able to do x & y thing. That's part of the mistargeted problem with these bastions though, they are presenting on the surface as a way of filling a particular role while <em>mechanically</em> filling an entirely different one in too many ways to hold up the facade absent "<em>you're</em> the gm, <em>you</em> make it work".</p><p></p><p>On the subject of how 2e players used things like a keep/chapel/etc to bolster their ability 5e can't benefit there as long as it's skill system is trying to mimic both 3.x and 4e skill systems while simplification and streamlining <a href="https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/48414/roleplaying-games/1dd-the-5e-skill-system-is-bad" target="_blank">clobbers</a> what made each work</p><p></p><p>I was initially excited about bastions when they were described as a way to buy things between adventures and such, but these aren't targeting that goal. Instead we have a player focused solution aimed at allowing players to gear up while bypassing the gm and a wildly scattered level of rewards that will cause problems for the freshly disempowered gm. Those problems go so deep thand repeats so many times through this version of bastions that I don't even know what goal they are trying to fill as a tool for the gm.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9183485, member: 93670"] If you are talking about bastions as a way for players to spend money it [I]is[/I] a gold sink.. Unless we admit that the expenditures are inconsequential and likely pointless, but that counters the heart of your point about a way for players to engage in spending. Barring additional revelations from wotc 2024 is still targeting extreme stormwind levels of deliberately negative CharOp with no magic items as the baseline PC capability expectation yet the bastions inject quite a number of no consumable ones in an extremely skewed manner. Worse still is that the injections are ones where the players simply [I]bypass[/I] the gm to add the item they want. The ad&d comparison is not valid because it effectively lacked a skill system and doing things like gaining a keep/chapel/etc allowed a player to leverage it as justification for why they should be able to do x & y thing. That's part of the mistargeted problem with these bastions though, they are presenting on the surface as a way of filling a particular role while [I]mechanically[/I] filling an entirely different one in too many ways to hold up the facade absent "[I]you're[/I] the gm, [I]you[/I] make it work". On the subject of how 2e players used things like a keep/chapel/etc to bolster their ability 5e can't benefit there as long as it's skill system is trying to mimic both 3.x and 4e skill systems while simplification and streamlining [URL='https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/48414/roleplaying-games/1dd-the-5e-skill-system-is-bad']clobbers[/URL] what made each work I was initially excited about bastions when they were described as a way to buy things between adventures and such, but these aren't targeting that goal. Instead we have a player focused solution aimed at allowing players to gear up while bypassing the gm and a wildly scattered level of rewards that will cause problems for the freshly disempowered gm. Those problems go so deep thand repeats so many times through this version of bastions that I don't even know what goal they are trying to fill as a tool for the gm. [/QUOTE]
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