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<blockquote data-quote="Pickles JG" data-source="post: 5953958" data-attributes="member: 61501"><p>The -20 has weird effects if new combatants join a fight. </p><p>It also leads to clumping of initiatives as its very likely that all of the surprised faction goes last. This is less fun in general in 3e & 4e.</p><p>So I do not like it either. One poor free action seemed good to me in 4e but it is pretty strong. </p><p> </p><p>Really the advantage of surprise could be factored in to position & situation. Ie if you set a good ambush surprise is worth a lot. If you happen to hear the other guys 10 seconds before they hear you not so much. </p><p> </p><p>He seems to be mixing up lethality of combat with the presence of fast healing. It never seemed to make combat more lethal to me to have less natural healing, just to make players take longer resting up between big fights. In combat healing maybe as 4e seems to have few random deaths in fights but still too many TPKs, as it's very hard to run away.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pickles JG, post: 5953958, member: 61501"] The -20 has weird effects if new combatants join a fight. It also leads to clumping of initiatives as its very likely that all of the surprised faction goes last. This is less fun in general in 3e & 4e. So I do not like it either. One poor free action seemed good to me in 4e but it is pretty strong. Really the advantage of surprise could be factored in to position & situation. Ie if you set a good ambush surprise is worth a lot. If you happen to hear the other guys 10 seconds before they hear you not so much. He seems to be mixing up lethality of combat with the presence of fast healing. It never seemed to make combat more lethal to me to have less natural healing, just to make players take longer resting up between big fights. In combat healing maybe as 4e seems to have few random deaths in fights but still too many TPKs, as it's very hard to run away. [/QUOTE]
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