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<blockquote data-quote="perrinmiller" data-source="post: 5750551" data-attributes="member: 88649"><p><strong>DM Workshop #3: Skill Challenges</strong></p><p></p><p><strong><u>DM Workshop #3: Skill Challenges</u></strong></p><p></p><p>In many ways, a skill challenge is like any other encounter. It has opportunities for success and penalties for failure. It requires multiple heroes to participate and often has both obstacles and antagonists. However, whereas combat encounters require the heroes to use weapons or special attacks to achieve victory, a skill challenge requires them to use their skills and creativity to succeed.</p><p></p><p>Apparently this is something that was developed later (for D&D 4ed and Star Wars Sage Edition), but I don't see why it won't work under Pathfinder or even D&D 3.5ed. Just keep in mind that both 4th Ed and SWSE have significantly less skills too, so it makes it easier for those rules.</p><p></p><p>Here is an example (4th Ed D&D):</p><p></p><p>Here is another example (From SW Saga Edition):</p><p></p><p>As a DM you can have the failure result in an encounter that will gain them XP to make up for getting none from the Skill Challenge. Or you can give experience out for partial success</p><p></p><p><u>SKILL CHALLENGE TRANSPARENCY</u></p><p>How much should you tell your players during a skill challenge? In a combat encounter, the players know that they are engaged in combat and t hat they will act in a certain order, and they have a good idea of what they must do to succeed. A skill challenge, however, can be a bit more ambiguous.</p><p></p><p><strong>Total Disclosure:</strong> You hide nothing from your players. You tell them when they are in a skill challenge, what ski lls are their best choices, how many successes they need, and any special rules that apply to the skill chall enge. You might even reveal the DCs of the skill checks they must make. Because of t he focus on game mechanics, this kind of transparency works best for skill challenges that have little dramatic tension, such as those without direct antagonists. For example, a skill challenge in which the heroes must work together to rebuild a broken-down cart is not a particularly dramatic scene, so the mechanics would not disrupt the flow of the game. This might also be better in the PbP environment for us inexperienced people with skill challenges in general.</p><p></p><p><strong>Partial Disclosure:</strong> You tell your players a few things, but keep other things secret. You reveal that they are in a skill challenge and perhaps explain any special rules for the challenge. Otherwise, it is up to the players to feel out the situation, using roleplaying and their own insight to determine what skills will help them achieve success. This kind of transparency works best for skill challenges that have some dramatic tension but that still require the players to focus on a specific goal. For</p><p>example, a chase sequence through city streets provides an interesting narrative, but you should make the scene's game mechanics obvious so the players realize that their actions have immediate consequences. </p><p></p><p><strong>Secret Challenge:</strong> You hide everything from the players, including the fact that they are in a skill challenge. You keep track of the challenge behind the scenes as a means of directing the flow of the game or providing experience points for a noncombat encounter. This kind of transparency works best for scenes that rely heavily on roleplaying and dialogue (such as negotiations) so that the game mechanics do not interfere with the drama . This degree of transparency also works for skill challenges that take place over long periods of time, since it allows the plot to develop naturally without the players worrying about the skill challenge. I am not sure I would attempt this in PbP because people forget things over time. Also I think it requires more experience on the DM side as well (meaning I am not sure I could do it either and have it work out. LOL).</p><p></p><p><strong>Rewards for Skill Challenges:</strong></p><p>A Complexity 1 skill challenge should yield as much XP as defeating 1 monster of the same level; a Complexity 2 skill challenge should yield as much XP as defeating 2 monsters of the same level (800XP), an so on. For a DM, creating a skill challenge from scratch, this is a good way to conceptualize how significant your skill challenge really is.</p><p>For example if the PCs are level 1, then according to the Core Rules fighting and defeating 1 typical monster (CR1) should net the PCs 400XP. So overcoming a Complexity 1 skill challenges should result in about the same 400XP reward.</p><p>In a typical Complexity 1 skill challenge, normally the PCs must achieve 4 successes before 3 failures in order to get the XP. If they succeed with less that 4 successes without getting the 3 failures (due to some ingenuity, creativity, or something), then they still get the XP.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Complexities:</u></strong> (This is from the 4th Ed DMG)</p><p>Complexity 1: 4 successes before 2 failures</p><p>Complexity 2: 6 successes before 3 failures</p><p>Complexity 3: 8 successes before 4 failures</p><p>Complexity 4: 10 successes before 5 failures</p><p>Complexity 5: 12 successes before 6 failures</p><p></p><p><u>OPPOSED CHECKS</u></p><p>For speed and simplicity, skill challenges use only flat DCs to oppose the PCs’ skill checks. Opposing them with skill check results builds too much randomness into the system. If you want to include opponents’ checks in your skill challenges, use their passive checks (10 + base skill check bonus). Sense Motive and Perception are the skills most often used in this way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="perrinmiller, post: 5750551, member: 88649"] [b]DM Workshop #3: Skill Challenges[/b] [B][U]DM Workshop #3: Skill Challenges[/U][/B] In many ways, a skill challenge is like any other encounter. It has opportunities for success and penalties for failure. It requires multiple heroes to participate and often has both obstacles and antagonists. However, whereas combat encounters require the heroes to use weapons or special attacks to achieve victory, a skill challenge requires them to use their skills and creativity to succeed. Apparently this is something that was developed later (for D&D 4ed and Star Wars Sage Edition), but I don't see why it won't work under Pathfinder or even D&D 3.5ed. Just keep in mind that both 4th Ed and SWSE have significantly less skills too, so it makes it easier for those rules. Here is an example (4th Ed D&D): Here is another example (From SW Saga Edition): As a DM you can have the failure result in an encounter that will gain them XP to make up for getting none from the Skill Challenge. Or you can give experience out for partial success [U]SKILL CHALLENGE TRANSPARENCY[/U] How much should you tell your players during a skill challenge? In a combat encounter, the players know that they are engaged in combat and t hat they will act in a certain order, and they have a good idea of what they must do to succeed. A skill challenge, however, can be a bit more ambiguous. [B]Total Disclosure:[/B] You hide nothing from your players. You tell them when they are in a skill challenge, what ski lls are their best choices, how many successes they need, and any special rules that apply to the skill chall enge. You might even reveal the DCs of the skill checks they must make. Because of t he focus on game mechanics, this kind of transparency works best for skill challenges that have little dramatic tension, such as those without direct antagonists. For example, a skill challenge in which the heroes must work together to rebuild a broken-down cart is not a particularly dramatic scene, so the mechanics would not disrupt the flow of the game. This might also be better in the PbP environment for us inexperienced people with skill challenges in general. [B]Partial Disclosure:[/B] You tell your players a few things, but keep other things secret. You reveal that they are in a skill challenge and perhaps explain any special rules for the challenge. Otherwise, it is up to the players to feel out the situation, using roleplaying and their own insight to determine what skills will help them achieve success. This kind of transparency works best for skill challenges that have some dramatic tension but that still require the players to focus on a specific goal. For example, a chase sequence through city streets provides an interesting narrative, but you should make the scene's game mechanics obvious so the players realize that their actions have immediate consequences. [B]Secret Challenge:[/B] You hide everything from the players, including the fact that they are in a skill challenge. You keep track of the challenge behind the scenes as a means of directing the flow of the game or providing experience points for a noncombat encounter. This kind of transparency works best for scenes that rely heavily on roleplaying and dialogue (such as negotiations) so that the game mechanics do not interfere with the drama . This degree of transparency also works for skill challenges that take place over long periods of time, since it allows the plot to develop naturally without the players worrying about the skill challenge. I am not sure I would attempt this in PbP because people forget things over time. Also I think it requires more experience on the DM side as well (meaning I am not sure I could do it either and have it work out. LOL). [B]Rewards for Skill Challenges:[/B] A Complexity 1 skill challenge should yield as much XP as defeating 1 monster of the same level; a Complexity 2 skill challenge should yield as much XP as defeating 2 monsters of the same level (800XP), an so on. For a DM, creating a skill challenge from scratch, this is a good way to conceptualize how significant your skill challenge really is. For example if the PCs are level 1, then according to the Core Rules fighting and defeating 1 typical monster (CR1) should net the PCs 400XP. So overcoming a Complexity 1 skill challenges should result in about the same 400XP reward. In a typical Complexity 1 skill challenge, normally the PCs must achieve 4 successes before 3 failures in order to get the XP. If they succeed with less that 4 successes without getting the 3 failures (due to some ingenuity, creativity, or something), then they still get the XP. [B][U]Complexities:[/U][/B] (This is from the 4th Ed DMG) Complexity 1: 4 successes before 2 failures Complexity 2: 6 successes before 3 failures Complexity 3: 8 successes before 4 failures Complexity 4: 10 successes before 5 failures Complexity 5: 12 successes before 6 failures [U]OPPOSED CHECKS[/U] For speed and simplicity, skill challenges use only flat DCs to oppose the PCs’ skill checks. Opposing them with skill check results builds too much randomness into the system. If you want to include opponents’ checks in your skill challenges, use their passive checks (10 + base skill check bonus). Sense Motive and Perception are the skills most often used in this way. [/QUOTE]
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