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podcast: 4th edition combat too long
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<blockquote data-quote="ravenight" data-source="post: 4311721" data-attributes="member: 69229"><p>They rolled badly, but as Palladion says, they really played poorly - very few attempts to help each other out, almost no coordinated tactics. You can tell their attitude was straight 3e/powergamer by the fact that everyone blew their action point in the first round. Using action points in the first round is really only a good idea if you are going to pull off some combo that eliminates an opponent or two. You don't just use it to re-roll a missed attack.</p><p></p><p>Seriously, why in the world is the rogue charging the mindflayer right out the gate? Even if his entire purpose there was to knock him unconscious, he should have encouraged the others (and they should have known) to work with him and pile on the Mindflayer at that point, or he shouldn't have done it. If they couldn't get there, then that is all the more reason not to charge in and blow the action point right away.</p><p></p><p>Ignore the rolls and simply focus on the actions the party takes in the first round or two and it doesn't even seem like they are playing the right game. I didn't see one instance of someone moving to flanking position, or even paying attention to the position of another PC.</p><p></p><p>Another thing that is a shame is that there are several poorly adjudicated or forgotten rules. I think that the OAs for the minotaur were not handled correctly (I'm pretty sure I saw the minotaur use one against the paladin twice in the same turn, and I also thought the warlock hit one of the creatures with a power that made it take OAs against its allies and yet I don't remember any of those occuring). Also, the paladin power "pray for more" is used to make the DM reroll at one point, which isn't how it works. They did put the text up, but it would have been better if they had also pointed out that Dave made a mistake in allowing that use of it. </p><p></p><p>Honestly, the whole thing might make for a really great 4e ad if they did another video of some people who know what they are doing critiquing the plays, explaining what happened, what should have happened rules-wise if something was forgotten or misplayed, and what should have been done, or might have been a better idea rules-wise.</p><p></p><p>I also find it somewhat odd that after all the talk about roles and the importance of having a party that covers each one, there wasn't any commentary about the fact that the group had no leader.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I enjoyed watching it, and I think its intent was as much to show some people having fun with the system and kind of get others talking about it as to actually sell the system. That said, it doesn't do a good job of showing what combat can be like.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ravenight, post: 4311721, member: 69229"] They rolled badly, but as Palladion says, they really played poorly - very few attempts to help each other out, almost no coordinated tactics. You can tell their attitude was straight 3e/powergamer by the fact that everyone blew their action point in the first round. Using action points in the first round is really only a good idea if you are going to pull off some combo that eliminates an opponent or two. You don't just use it to re-roll a missed attack. Seriously, why in the world is the rogue charging the mindflayer right out the gate? Even if his entire purpose there was to knock him unconscious, he should have encouraged the others (and they should have known) to work with him and pile on the Mindflayer at that point, or he shouldn't have done it. If they couldn't get there, then that is all the more reason not to charge in and blow the action point right away. Ignore the rolls and simply focus on the actions the party takes in the first round or two and it doesn't even seem like they are playing the right game. I didn't see one instance of someone moving to flanking position, or even paying attention to the position of another PC. Another thing that is a shame is that there are several poorly adjudicated or forgotten rules. I think that the OAs for the minotaur were not handled correctly (I'm pretty sure I saw the minotaur use one against the paladin twice in the same turn, and I also thought the warlock hit one of the creatures with a power that made it take OAs against its allies and yet I don't remember any of those occuring). Also, the paladin power "pray for more" is used to make the DM reroll at one point, which isn't how it works. They did put the text up, but it would have been better if they had also pointed out that Dave made a mistake in allowing that use of it. Honestly, the whole thing might make for a really great 4e ad if they did another video of some people who know what they are doing critiquing the plays, explaining what happened, what should have happened rules-wise if something was forgotten or misplayed, and what should have been done, or might have been a better idea rules-wise. I also find it somewhat odd that after all the talk about roles and the importance of having a party that covers each one, there wasn't any commentary about the fact that the group had no leader. Anyway, I enjoyed watching it, and I think its intent was as much to show some people having fun with the system and kind of get others talking about it as to actually sell the system. That said, it doesn't do a good job of showing what combat can be like. [/QUOTE]
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