Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Poison needle traps
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 7431035" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>[MENTION=6801286]Imaculata[/MENTION], how can you say the wording is "pretty clear"? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>It's not even clear whether the description here is for the <strong>trap only</strong> excluding the lock or if it is for <strong>trap and lock </strong>together. </p><p></p><p>(CASE 1)</p><p></p><p>If you assume the description is <em>complete</em> for the whole thing, then it sounds like you need only <em>one</em> check with thieves' tools for both disarming the trap and opening the lock, provided you <em>first</em> detect the trap. In this case the last sentence "Unsuccessfully attempting to pick the lock triggers the trap" suggests both checks are merged into one.</p><p></p><p>If you instead don't detect the traps (your Investigation fails or you didn't ever think about it), you automatically trigger the trap, <em>before </em>you finish your lockpicking. After that, since the trap doesn't reset, you can continue without further danger, but you still need to make the DC15 lockpicking check. In this case the last sentence "Unsuccessfully attempting to pick the lock triggers the trap" is irrelevant because the trap is already sprung.</p><p></p><p>An alternative interpretation would be to allow the character who is unaware of the trap to just lockpick, and not trigger the trap on a success. But then the benefit of a success at <em>detecting </em>the trap would be reduced to more knowledge before deciding whether to not lockpick at all to avoid the danger.</p><p></p><p>(CASE 2)</p><p></p><p>But what if instead the description is for the <em>trap only</em>? After all, the DC15 Dex check here mentions only disarm. So it's also possible to read the whole thing as <em>not including the lock</em>, and in fact there are different locks in the book with different DCs for picking them.</p><p></p><p>In such case, it takes two <em>separate </em>thieves' tools successful checks, one to disarm the trap and another to pick the lock. </p><p></p><p>If you detect the trap and decide to continue, you do first the disarm check. What happens on a failure? the description doesn't say if a failure in <em>disarm</em> triggers the trap or merely fails at disarming - not that other traps in the DMG specify what happens in this case, but not this trap! If you succeed, then you do the second check to pick the lock.</p><p></p><p>If you don't detect the trap, I still say it's more reasonable that picking the lock automatically triggers the trap.</p><p></p><p>As you can see, there are actually lots of options for the DM. The only fixed fact, is that the trap description is everything but pretty clear <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 7431035, member: 1465"] [MENTION=6801286]Imaculata[/MENTION], how can you say the wording is "pretty clear"? :) It's not even clear whether the description here is for the [B]trap only[/B] excluding the lock or if it is for [B]trap and lock [/B]together. (CASE 1) If you assume the description is [I]complete[/I] for the whole thing, then it sounds like you need only [I]one[/I] check with thieves' tools for both disarming the trap and opening the lock, provided you [I]first[/I] detect the trap. In this case the last sentence "Unsuccessfully attempting to pick the lock triggers the trap" suggests both checks are merged into one. If you instead don't detect the traps (your Investigation fails or you didn't ever think about it), you automatically trigger the trap, [I]before [/I]you finish your lockpicking. After that, since the trap doesn't reset, you can continue without further danger, but you still need to make the DC15 lockpicking check. In this case the last sentence "Unsuccessfully attempting to pick the lock triggers the trap" is irrelevant because the trap is already sprung. An alternative interpretation would be to allow the character who is unaware of the trap to just lockpick, and not trigger the trap on a success. But then the benefit of a success at [I]detecting [/I]the trap would be reduced to more knowledge before deciding whether to not lockpick at all to avoid the danger. (CASE 2) But what if instead the description is for the [I]trap only[/I]? After all, the DC15 Dex check here mentions only disarm. So it's also possible to read the whole thing as [I]not including the lock[/I], and in fact there are different locks in the book with different DCs for picking them. In such case, it takes two [I]separate [/I]thieves' tools successful checks, one to disarm the trap and another to pick the lock. If you detect the trap and decide to continue, you do first the disarm check. What happens on a failure? the description doesn't say if a failure in [I]disarm[/I] triggers the trap or merely fails at disarming - not that other traps in the DMG specify what happens in this case, but not this trap! If you succeed, then you do the second check to pick the lock. If you don't detect the trap, I still say it's more reasonable that picking the lock automatically triggers the trap. As you can see, there are actually lots of options for the DM. The only fixed fact, is that the trap description is everything but pretty clear :) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Poison needle traps
Top