Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Possible houserules
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FreeTheSlaves" data-source="post: 3997205" data-attributes="member: 9952"><p>My group and I are coming back from our Christmas/New Years hiatus and so I sent out an email to touch base. Part of the email asked players what they liked and disliked and the unanimous reply is that mid-level complexity is threatening to ruin the fun. The characters are levels 11-12.</p><p></p><p>We're all prepared to give a bit, players and dm (we do round robin dming), to speed up play. So I prepared a list of possible solutions designed to reduce the complexity of execution, rather than the complexity of choice - which imo is a good area for complexity to exist.</p><p></p><p>Anyhoo, without further ado, please have a look over the below houserule solutions and feel free to comment. Remember, these are all designed to drop complexity, time consumption, or an area that's simply not fun. At the beginning of each house rule solution I'll state why it's being proposed in brackets ().</p><p></p><p></p><p>****</p><p></p><p></p><p>1. (complexity, time consumption, not fun)</p><p>Drop the variety of spells and take the same spell numerous times. This limits the huge variety of half understood spells for a fewer group of really well understood spells, and allows the character to tank away longer for that day.</p><p></p><p>2. (not fun)</p><p>While we're at it, I like the idea of tanking away for longer each day. This means more less-powerful encounters and less spell dumping, i.e. using every power at our disposal on 1 battle and then teleporting home to sleep at 9.05am. Tanking away means the flow of play continues for longer and I think that would lead to a more enjoyable session.</p><p></p><p>3. (complexity)</p><p>Possibly even have the Cleric cast his spells like a sorcerer. This would mean using the sorcerer progression tables. Domain spells are tricky but because spontaneous spell casting is more powerful (sorcerers don't get extra feats), so I reckon for the sake of balance the Cleric would select one of his 2 domain spells as additional known spell at each spell level. This would reinforce the 1st point.</p><p></p><p>4. (complexity, time consumption, not fun)</p><p>Drop ability damage and ability score buffs, compensate with stat increases every odd level. 4th edition does not have animal buffs nor ability damage because they create rippling complexity and because they move away from the model of hp damage being the easy measure of a character's fighting endurance. We are however using 3E monsters that assume animal buffs, so being a bit more generous with permanent boosts should hopefully counterbalance. A boost every odd level starting at 3rd may be under/over powered, but manageable I think. Key ability boost spells that define Priest, i.e. divine power & righteous might can just add the right +X to hit & damage etc...</p><p></p><p>5. (time consumption)</p><p>Damage spells that throw a lot of dice around should be like in 4th edition where 2/3 of the damage is a + bonus. I.e. a 10dice fireball should be 3d6+24. This same rule could apply to sneak attack or a physical attack that uses a handful of dice. Personally I'd rather change my 1d6 frost damage to a set +3.5 (round down).</p><p></p><p>6. (complexity, time consumption, not fun)</p><p>Dispel magic is limited to targeting free standing spell effects (wall of fire), magic items and individual characters. No area effect that strips away a bit here and a bit there because they create a lot of grind.</p><p></p><p>7. (complexity, time consumption)</p><p>Use a predetermined value for power attack. This is tough but these feats are a table grinder because of calculations. If someone wants to opt to continuously use these feats I suggest the value be a conservative -1BAB for +2dam(+4 for PA 2 handed). The BAB penalty is improved by 1 to compensate for the lack of flexibility. This may be too strong or weak, but if the value is low it should be manageable.</p><p></p><p>8. (complexity, time consumption)</p><p>Ditch the leadership Feat and allow the character to choose again. The various npc's could be persuaded to be recruited on a case by case basis as they're needed but their presence slows proceedings. Let the character remain a 'leader' in role playing terms, just not with a feat expended and an npc in tow.</p><p></p><p>9. (complexity)</p><p>Possibly limit the number of active buffs on a character to ?...</p><p></p><p><em>These last three are in relation to our characters having too good an AC for most creatures, which is sucking the DM's fun from out of the fights.</em></p><p></p><p>10. (not fun)</p><p>Ditch natural armour amulets and spells. The +3/+4 natural armour just ramps it up by 15%/20% too much. Natural armour from shapechanging will be fine because the creature seldom has a heavy natural armour without poor dex and/or no worn armour.</p><p></p><p>11. (not fun)</p><p>Do to Combat expertise what I suggest for Power attack, i.e. either a predetermined values or a modest, slightly advantageous, and continuous power.</p><p></p><p>12. (not fun)</p><p>Don't allow the fighting defensive combat option, the aid another's AC combat option, and the Combat expertise feat to be allowed together. Only 1 usable by a character at any given time. </p><p></p><p>Thanks for reading and feedback. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FreeTheSlaves, post: 3997205, member: 9952"] My group and I are coming back from our Christmas/New Years hiatus and so I sent out an email to touch base. Part of the email asked players what they liked and disliked and the unanimous reply is that mid-level complexity is threatening to ruin the fun. The characters are levels 11-12. We're all prepared to give a bit, players and dm (we do round robin dming), to speed up play. So I prepared a list of possible solutions designed to reduce the complexity of execution, rather than the complexity of choice - which imo is a good area for complexity to exist. Anyhoo, without further ado, please have a look over the below houserule solutions and feel free to comment. Remember, these are all designed to drop complexity, time consumption, or an area that's simply not fun. At the beginning of each house rule solution I'll state why it's being proposed in brackets (). **** 1. (complexity, time consumption, not fun) Drop the variety of spells and take the same spell numerous times. This limits the huge variety of half understood spells for a fewer group of really well understood spells, and allows the character to tank away longer for that day. 2. (not fun) While we're at it, I like the idea of tanking away for longer each day. This means more less-powerful encounters and less spell dumping, i.e. using every power at our disposal on 1 battle and then teleporting home to sleep at 9.05am. Tanking away means the flow of play continues for longer and I think that would lead to a more enjoyable session. 3. (complexity) Possibly even have the Cleric cast his spells like a sorcerer. This would mean using the sorcerer progression tables. Domain spells are tricky but because spontaneous spell casting is more powerful (sorcerers don't get extra feats), so I reckon for the sake of balance the Cleric would select one of his 2 domain spells as additional known spell at each spell level. This would reinforce the 1st point. 4. (complexity, time consumption, not fun) Drop ability damage and ability score buffs, compensate with stat increases every odd level. 4th edition does not have animal buffs nor ability damage because they create rippling complexity and because they move away from the model of hp damage being the easy measure of a character's fighting endurance. We are however using 3E monsters that assume animal buffs, so being a bit more generous with permanent boosts should hopefully counterbalance. A boost every odd level starting at 3rd may be under/over powered, but manageable I think. Key ability boost spells that define Priest, i.e. divine power & righteous might can just add the right +X to hit & damage etc... 5. (time consumption) Damage spells that throw a lot of dice around should be like in 4th edition where 2/3 of the damage is a + bonus. I.e. a 10dice fireball should be 3d6+24. This same rule could apply to sneak attack or a physical attack that uses a handful of dice. Personally I'd rather change my 1d6 frost damage to a set +3.5 (round down). 6. (complexity, time consumption, not fun) Dispel magic is limited to targeting free standing spell effects (wall of fire), magic items and individual characters. No area effect that strips away a bit here and a bit there because they create a lot of grind. 7. (complexity, time consumption) Use a predetermined value for power attack. This is tough but these feats are a table grinder because of calculations. If someone wants to opt to continuously use these feats I suggest the value be a conservative -1BAB for +2dam(+4 for PA 2 handed). The BAB penalty is improved by 1 to compensate for the lack of flexibility. This may be too strong or weak, but if the value is low it should be manageable. 8. (complexity, time consumption) Ditch the leadership Feat and allow the character to choose again. The various npc's could be persuaded to be recruited on a case by case basis as they're needed but their presence slows proceedings. Let the character remain a 'leader' in role playing terms, just not with a feat expended and an npc in tow. 9. (complexity) Possibly limit the number of active buffs on a character to ?... [I]These last three are in relation to our characters having too good an AC for most creatures, which is sucking the DM's fun from out of the fights.[/I] 10. (not fun) Ditch natural armour amulets and spells. The +3/+4 natural armour just ramps it up by 15%/20% too much. Natural armour from shapechanging will be fine because the creature seldom has a heavy natural armour without poor dex and/or no worn armour. 11. (not fun) Do to Combat expertise what I suggest for Power attack, i.e. either a predetermined values or a modest, slightly advantageous, and continuous power. 12. (not fun) Don't allow the fighting defensive combat option, the aid another's AC combat option, and the Combat expertise feat to be allowed together. Only 1 usable by a character at any given time. Thanks for reading and feedback. :-) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Possible houserules
Top