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<blockquote data-quote="Xath" data-source="post: 4006491" data-attributes="member: 17040"><p>Sounds like you want spontaneous casters. Why not ditch wizards entirely, and stick with characters that are more limited selection wise, but still versatile. (Sorceror, Battle Sorceror, Warmage, Beguiler, Duskblade)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think this is also a matter of DMing style. Perhaps the DM could tailor some encounters for the party that are more time-comsuming and complex, rather than big blow-out battles. We had this problem with my group at the same power level, and solved it by adding some puzzle-filled dungeon crawls into the mix. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's a variant in Unearthed Arcana for a spontaneous divine caster. It works out pretty well. You also might want to check out the Favored Soul class for a slightly different flavor of cleric. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This was also a big problem in our group. We solved it by making a check-sheet of the most commonly used buffs in the party, and what the effects were. Before a battle, we'd just check off the buffs we were using, and we had a handy reference sheet right in front of us. If you laminate it, you can use wet-erase markers and wipe it clean. You can also keep track of the rounds for round based buffs. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hrm, I see what you're saying here, but I can't agree with it. Taking the variability out of combat damage takes away alot of the "chance" of battle. You know what your characters are capable of, and you know how much damage they're going to do. If your also reducing the tactics capability (by reducing spell versatility) then you can almost just "know" how every battle is going to turn out ahead of time. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, we solve this in my group by preperation. The people in the group who use Power Attack have pre-determined values for attack and damage already listed on their character sheet in subsequent weapon slots. That way, making a 5 point power attack is no more troubling than a regular attack. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Our group is also becoming bogged down with NPCs. I can't remember if this is a real rule or not, but in our group, if you forego a cohort, you get a +2 to your leadership score. The actual hundreds of followers play a much more abstract role in the game. They're there for large-scale battles or function as a spy network. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Have you considered that maybe your encounter level isn't high enough? Especially if your group is flooded with high level NPCs, you might be able to have them fight a higher CR (which means higher to-hit). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We do the same thing here that we do for power attack.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, it comes down to what works for your group. The main goal is for everyone to be having fun. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xath, post: 4006491, member: 17040"] Sounds like you want spontaneous casters. Why not ditch wizards entirely, and stick with characters that are more limited selection wise, but still versatile. (Sorceror, Battle Sorceror, Warmage, Beguiler, Duskblade) I think this is also a matter of DMing style. Perhaps the DM could tailor some encounters for the party that are more time-comsuming and complex, rather than big blow-out battles. We had this problem with my group at the same power level, and solved it by adding some puzzle-filled dungeon crawls into the mix. There's a variant in Unearthed Arcana for a spontaneous divine caster. It works out pretty well. You also might want to check out the Favored Soul class for a slightly different flavor of cleric. This was also a big problem in our group. We solved it by making a check-sheet of the most commonly used buffs in the party, and what the effects were. Before a battle, we'd just check off the buffs we were using, and we had a handy reference sheet right in front of us. If you laminate it, you can use wet-erase markers and wipe it clean. You can also keep track of the rounds for round based buffs. Hrm, I see what you're saying here, but I can't agree with it. Taking the variability out of combat damage takes away alot of the "chance" of battle. You know what your characters are capable of, and you know how much damage they're going to do. If your also reducing the tactics capability (by reducing spell versatility) then you can almost just "know" how every battle is going to turn out ahead of time. Again, we solve this in my group by preperation. The people in the group who use Power Attack have pre-determined values for attack and damage already listed on their character sheet in subsequent weapon slots. That way, making a 5 point power attack is no more troubling than a regular attack. Our group is also becoming bogged down with NPCs. I can't remember if this is a real rule or not, but in our group, if you forego a cohort, you get a +2 to your leadership score. The actual hundreds of followers play a much more abstract role in the game. They're there for large-scale battles or function as a spy network. Have you considered that maybe your encounter level isn't high enough? Especially if your group is flooded with high level NPCs, you might be able to have them fight a higher CR (which means higher to-hit). We do the same thing here that we do for power attack. Ultimately, it comes down to what works for your group. The main goal is for everyone to be having fun. :) [/QUOTE]
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