Prayer vs. Bless: What the...?

[The Shadow]

I suspect that Prayer's explicit calling-out of Bless is an artifact of the short spell list we currently have.

No doubt there is a more general rule about how buffing spells affect each other, but with the limited number of buffs at our disposal, they made it simple.

 

[tlantl]

Right now it seems that the spells are as much a work in progress as the monsters are. It doesn't surprise me that the intent of certain restrictions conditions and who a spell affects don't make a whole lot of sense. I would just ignore these issues until they are sorted out or we are given more information on how they work.

I think the best we can do is keep track of those things we are concerned about and let the devs know about them in the comments sections in the surveys, probably in a tone and language that doesn't cause them to disregard our concerns.

I have serious reservations concerning the way spells work and don't work in Next. I surely hope that by this time next year this will all have been dealt with and we have another mess to unravel.

As for spells that specifically forbid being used with other spells, I would go with the assumption that the higher level spell supersedes the lower level spell by either cancelling it out or suppressing it's effect until the more powerful spell wears off. If both spells last for the same duration then the higher level spell negates the lower level spell.

I guess the thinking where the bonuses from each spell is concerned, is to keep the players from being too powerful. A bonus to hit and to AC and to saves is too much. I actually Think a +2 to AC is too much anyway. Monsters are so badly under powered in combat as it is right now that even a single point of AC bonus is very strong.

 

[howandwhy99]

All spells receive the option of Saving Throws, including Prayer and Bless. Creatures do not need to accept it. Objects automatically roll for a save.

In a bounded system modifiers overlap and (optionally) subtract. They do not stack.

It's actually easier in that you don't have to use arithmetic as often, but you'd still track each effect (which can be simplified with die trackers, etc.)

For example, Prayer for 1 minute grants +2 to AC & Saves. Bless grants +1 on Attack rolls for 1 minute. Traditionally these modifiers overlap and not cancel each other out as they granted similar effects (not different as they do here). If a Curse -1 to Saves were applied, then it would subtract Prayer's Save bonus to a +1. Alternately, as Prayer is the more powerful effect it could still remain fully in effect and the curse would only apply when the Prayer's duration ended. It depends on the system in use.

Note, bonuses and penalties can be applied anywhere, so you can Bless a person (ally, self, possessed during an exorcism), an object (holy symbol, weapon, statue), or place (shrine and so on).

I strongly advise they pump this to 24 hours as the spell is daily, then offer the craft spell Permanency at higher levels.