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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6176510" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>I did a similar thing during last year Christmas holidays, to run a few playtest sessions for friends that never played D&D. I was able to really shrink everything down to a few pages only, even tho I didn't actually take the fluff out because some of those friends might not have known what a D&D dwarf is <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> But I did remove everything related to after 3rd level (I planned for the sessions to cover levels 1-2 but then I left level 3 stuff just in case) including text for scaling spells and abilities.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You should mention stuff like this in your playtest feedback. WotC will not reduce fluff, they want it there so that the game is complete also for those who don't know what a D&D dwarf is, but putting the meat of the text upfront is certainly an improvement suggestion they'll probably listen to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I had a thread about this a couple of weeks ago, but apparently a lot of people are fine with this. I am not... there is no reason to make Clerics more appealing at lower levels, and if there is a reason, there are other ways. IMHO all classes should get the subclass choice at 3rd level (notice that also Mage and Ranger get it at 2nd) so that (1) every class is treated equally, (2) a beginner doesn't have to make the subclass choice immediately, (3) not choosing a specialization until 3rd level enforces the concept of apprentice tier and (4) a multiclass character dipping just a level or two in another class doesn't identify yet with a specialty.</p><p></p><p>IMO the Domain choice is at 1st level because it used to be Deity choice until the previous packet. Now if the choice of Cleric subclass is your deity, clearly this makes it very hard to imagine a cleric who doesn't have a Deity until level 3... But now that it's changed to Domain, it would actually make a lot of sense for a Cleric to have a deity since the start but only specialize in one of her deity's domains a little later, exactly because it is a specialization: e.g. a Cleric of Mystra is that since level 1, but whether she focuses on the Magic domain or the Knowledge domain is a choice to make a bit later, and before that she's just an unspecialized low-clergy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's an old issue here: some people wants the same text (how spellcasting works) reprinted for each class for ease of reference, while other people wants it printed only once if it works exactly the same for such classes (just like combat rules are printed only once, so could spellcasting rules). </p><p></p><p>WotC seems oriented to reprinting, but it's always been a bit of a mishmash... e.g. in 3e books some spellcasting rules were reprinted for each class, but then some class-specific but less important rules (i.e. spellbook detailed rules for copying) were in the Magic chapter. </p><p></p><p>I think the current text can be improved by moving the basic, common rules (i.e. that you prepare X spells, then cast any prepared spells using your slots freely, how rituals work) to the Magic chapter, and leaving only what is really different by class (i.e. the key ability score affecting your spells DC, whether you cast rituals from prepared spells or from known spells...).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6176510, member: 1465"] I did a similar thing during last year Christmas holidays, to run a few playtest sessions for friends that never played D&D. I was able to really shrink everything down to a few pages only, even tho I didn't actually take the fluff out because some of those friends might not have known what a D&D dwarf is :) But I did remove everything related to after 3rd level (I planned for the sessions to cover levels 1-2 but then I left level 3 stuff just in case) including text for scaling spells and abilities. You should mention stuff like this in your playtest feedback. WotC will not reduce fluff, they want it there so that the game is complete also for those who don't know what a D&D dwarf is, but putting the meat of the text upfront is certainly an improvement suggestion they'll probably listen to. I had a thread about this a couple of weeks ago, but apparently a lot of people are fine with this. I am not... there is no reason to make Clerics more appealing at lower levels, and if there is a reason, there are other ways. IMHO all classes should get the subclass choice at 3rd level (notice that also Mage and Ranger get it at 2nd) so that (1) every class is treated equally, (2) a beginner doesn't have to make the subclass choice immediately, (3) not choosing a specialization until 3rd level enforces the concept of apprentice tier and (4) a multiclass character dipping just a level or two in another class doesn't identify yet with a specialty. IMO the Domain choice is at 1st level because it used to be Deity choice until the previous packet. Now if the choice of Cleric subclass is your deity, clearly this makes it very hard to imagine a cleric who doesn't have a Deity until level 3... But now that it's changed to Domain, it would actually make a lot of sense for a Cleric to have a deity since the start but only specialize in one of her deity's domains a little later, exactly because it is a specialization: e.g. a Cleric of Mystra is that since level 1, but whether she focuses on the Magic domain or the Knowledge domain is a choice to make a bit later, and before that she's just an unspecialized low-clergy. There's an old issue here: some people wants the same text (how spellcasting works) reprinted for each class for ease of reference, while other people wants it printed only once if it works exactly the same for such classes (just like combat rules are printed only once, so could spellcasting rules). WotC seems oriented to reprinting, but it's always been a bit of a mishmash... e.g. in 3e books some spellcasting rules were reprinted for each class, but then some class-specific but less important rules (i.e. spellbook detailed rules for copying) were in the Magic chapter. I think the current text can be improved by moving the basic, common rules (i.e. that you prepare X spells, then cast any prepared spells using your slots freely, how rituals work) to the Magic chapter, and leaving only what is really different by class (i.e. the key ability score affecting your spells DC, whether you cast rituals from prepared spells or from known spells...). [/QUOTE]
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