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Preview 3: Rings
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6414373" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Since Hex is a concentration spell, it will get dropped fairly quickly in combat (unless the Warlock is rarely attacked, but in that case, he would rarely have the need for multiple Hex spells). The entire pact weapon concept is the antithesis of casting the Hex spell since it will tend to go down so quickly.</p><p></p><p>Sure, it is better than not having one or two extra Hexes a day, but it's not really that strong. If the warlock manages 2 extra Hexes per day and those Hexes last 6 rounds each before the Warlock gets hit and loses concentration, that's typically at most 12D6 extra damage that he can do (all of his attacks have to hit), so typically 28 extra damage a day (if a typical 2 out of 3 attacks hit). A Wizard with 5 Magic Missile spells in the same ring can do an average of 52 extra damage minus any damage he would have done using a cantrip instead (~21 for Firebolt) or about 31 extra damage per day. A Wizard with a 3rd level Fireball will often do 50 to 100 extra damage.</p><p></p><p>I'm not seeing where 28 extra points of damage a day is all that great.</p><p></p><p>Sure, the Warlock can hide super far in the back, cast Hex, and then rarely get hit. But again, so? Maybe one day he does 50 extra points a day with his two additional Hex spells.</p><p></p><p>In addition, once a Warlock gets to 5th level, he can only store one spell at a time in the ring (of his spells). Other PCs can put a few more low level spells into the ring, but at level 5 the Warlock has 3rd level spell slots, so he can only put in one of his own spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The difference is that other spell casters can put 1 to 5 spells in the ring, the Warlock can only put 5 of his own spells in at levels 1 and 2 (a time when he probably won't own such a ring), 2 in at levels 3 and 4, and 1 in at levels 5+.</p><p></p><p>That's a pretty heavy restriction on the ring.</p><p></p><p>A Cleric? 5 Cure Wounds. An Aid and a Mass Healing Word. There are dozens and dozens of good combinations.</p><p></p><p>A Wizard? 5 Burning Hands. 5 Sleeps. 2 Invisibilities and a Feather Fall. And for the spells the Wizard puts into the ring, he might not have to prep them that day, so he has even more versatility.</p><p></p><p>Lot's of versatility. The Warlock, not so much.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As for the Warlock running out of spells, yes, he can fairly easily run out of normal spells.</p><p></p><p>But you cannot have it both ways. Either the Warlock is not easily running out of spell slots between short rests (in which case he can recharge the ring, but doesn't really need the ring since he doesn't use up all of his slots between short rests), or as you claim, the Warlock does easily run out of spells shots between short rests (in which case he cannot recharge the ring anyway shy of taking 2 short rests back to back).</p><p></p><p>So it either doesn't help him a lot, or he cannot recharge it.</p><p></p><p>Example 1:</p><p></p><p>Warlock with full complement of spells and a full ring before a short rest casts the spell from the ring and all but one spell (x-1) of his own. Before the short rest, he puts a spell into the ring. Net gain zero. He could always cast x spells without owning the ring, so he is no better off than he was at the start of the day.</p><p></p><p>Example 2:</p><p></p><p>Warlock with full complement of spells and a full ring before a short rest casts all of his spells and one spell from the ring. Before the short rest, he cannot put a spell into the ring. Net gain zero. After the short rest, he has no spells in the ring and he has his full complement remaining. He has so far only gained one extra spell from the ring total.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't believe you because what you say doesn't make a lot of sense.</p><p></p><p>Yes, the ring gives a Warlock 1 or 2, sometimes even 3 extra spells per day at his "highest spell slot level". But the Warlock does not gain the level of versatility that other spell casters gain with the ring.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are going to argue how much better it is for a Warlock than for other spell casting classes, you need to provide examples as to why it is better to illustrate your POV. Just saying so doesn't make it so. Warlocks only gain a few extra spells with the ring. Other classes gain extra spells plus they gain extra versatility.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The extra 2 spells a day for a Warlock at best maybe two Blight spells for 18D6 extra damage a day (63 points, less with saves). A Wizard could do that much extra damage with a single 3rd level Fireball and still have 2 spell slots left over in the ring.</p><p></p><p>Sorry, not seeing it.</p><p></p><p>Maybe if you come up with some examples that strengthen your argument. But I understand quite well, thank you. Your argument just isn't strong enough to be convincing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6414373, member: 2011"] Since Hex is a concentration spell, it will get dropped fairly quickly in combat (unless the Warlock is rarely attacked, but in that case, he would rarely have the need for multiple Hex spells). The entire pact weapon concept is the antithesis of casting the Hex spell since it will tend to go down so quickly. Sure, it is better than not having one or two extra Hexes a day, but it's not really that strong. If the warlock manages 2 extra Hexes per day and those Hexes last 6 rounds each before the Warlock gets hit and loses concentration, that's typically at most 12D6 extra damage that he can do (all of his attacks have to hit), so typically 28 extra damage a day (if a typical 2 out of 3 attacks hit). A Wizard with 5 Magic Missile spells in the same ring can do an average of 52 extra damage minus any damage he would have done using a cantrip instead (~21 for Firebolt) or about 31 extra damage per day. A Wizard with a 3rd level Fireball will often do 50 to 100 extra damage. I'm not seeing where 28 extra points of damage a day is all that great. Sure, the Warlock can hide super far in the back, cast Hex, and then rarely get hit. But again, so? Maybe one day he does 50 extra points a day with his two additional Hex spells. In addition, once a Warlock gets to 5th level, he can only store one spell at a time in the ring (of his spells). Other PCs can put a few more low level spells into the ring, but at level 5 the Warlock has 3rd level spell slots, so he can only put in one of his own spells. The difference is that other spell casters can put 1 to 5 spells in the ring, the Warlock can only put 5 of his own spells in at levels 1 and 2 (a time when he probably won't own such a ring), 2 in at levels 3 and 4, and 1 in at levels 5+. That's a pretty heavy restriction on the ring. A Cleric? 5 Cure Wounds. An Aid and a Mass Healing Word. There are dozens and dozens of good combinations. A Wizard? 5 Burning Hands. 5 Sleeps. 2 Invisibilities and a Feather Fall. And for the spells the Wizard puts into the ring, he might not have to prep them that day, so he has even more versatility. Lot's of versatility. The Warlock, not so much. As for the Warlock running out of spells, yes, he can fairly easily run out of normal spells. But you cannot have it both ways. Either the Warlock is not easily running out of spell slots between short rests (in which case he can recharge the ring, but doesn't really need the ring since he doesn't use up all of his slots between short rests), or as you claim, the Warlock does easily run out of spells shots between short rests (in which case he cannot recharge the ring anyway shy of taking 2 short rests back to back). So it either doesn't help him a lot, or he cannot recharge it. Example 1: Warlock with full complement of spells and a full ring before a short rest casts the spell from the ring and all but one spell (x-1) of his own. Before the short rest, he puts a spell into the ring. Net gain zero. He could always cast x spells without owning the ring, so he is no better off than he was at the start of the day. Example 2: Warlock with full complement of spells and a full ring before a short rest casts all of his spells and one spell from the ring. Before the short rest, he cannot put a spell into the ring. Net gain zero. After the short rest, he has no spells in the ring and he has his full complement remaining. He has so far only gained one extra spell from the ring total. I don't believe you because what you say doesn't make a lot of sense. Yes, the ring gives a Warlock 1 or 2, sometimes even 3 extra spells per day at his "highest spell slot level". But the Warlock does not gain the level of versatility that other spell casters gain with the ring. If you are going to argue how much better it is for a Warlock than for other spell casting classes, you need to provide examples as to why it is better to illustrate your POV. Just saying so doesn't make it so. Warlocks only gain a few extra spells with the ring. Other classes gain extra spells plus they gain extra versatility. The extra 2 spells a day for a Warlock at best maybe two Blight spells for 18D6 extra damage a day (63 points, less with saves). A Wizard could do that much extra damage with a single 3rd level Fireball and still have 2 spell slots left over in the ring. Sorry, not seeing it. Maybe if you come up with some examples that strengthen your argument. But I understand quite well, thank you. Your argument just isn't strong enough to be convincing. [/QUOTE]
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