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<blockquote data-quote="Aberzanzorax" data-source="post: 4717950" data-attributes="member: 64209"><p>If I understand this correctly, the problem is:</p><p><em>When one character overshadows/is overpowered compared to the others.</em></p><p> </p><p>Then the question that follows is: </p><p><em>Who is to blame, the player or the system?</em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Naturally, if the system could not be "misused", then this would not be possible. So, a perfect system would "take care of" problem players.</p><p> </p><p>Naturally, if the player did not abuse the rules, then this would not be possible. So a perfect player would "take care of" problem systems.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>The answer is either/or. No player is perfect and no system is perfect. It is a matter of degree in both cases. The perfect player who finds "uber broken option in splat book #417" and fails to realize that it is broken is no different from the perfect player who finds "uber broken option in core rulebook 1". The system, though, is more shaky at its very core. The opposite is true as well. The nearly perfect system with the "uber jerk power gamer" who finds its one hidden flaw is no different from the nearly perfect system with the "hey I found this one powerful thing that seems cool this one time" player. The player results in the same disruption of game, despite being less of a power gamer.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>So there are some players who are better and worse and some systems that are better and worse for this.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>How do you fix it? I see three main options. The one I like best is to have a "player pow-wow" to determine the power level of the game. They self enforce through good communication what they're shooting for. The next best one IMO is the "DM fix". When some players get overpowered, the DM catches the others up. This is easily done with specific magic items, story based allies, drinks from magic fountains, etc. The final, and worst option is to trap the players with a cage of rules. Polymorph too powerful? No longer an option. No more splatbooks except what the DM approves, etc. This last one only encourages those with a predisposition to powergame to find the loopholes in the new DM rules and exploit those.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Regarding 3e versus 4e, both systems are problematic.</p><p> </p><p>3e had infinite options, especially at the end. The more you deviated from core, have power creep, etc. the more explioitable options there were. Even in core there were some, and I believe that is what the OP is getting at. (Druids, teleport, etc).</p><p> </p><p>4e has a "tighter" core to begin with. However, the "everything is core" philosophy will cause it to quickly catch up to 3e in terms of being able to be exploited. If the splatbooks are core, then it is less understandable that they be "broken". </p><p> </p><p>So, while the core of 3e was looser than the original core of 4e, both systems, at their core have a number of exploits, and the core of 4e continues to expand, eventually (potentially) overtaking 3e despite the 4e system being more balanced as a whole.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aberzanzorax, post: 4717950, member: 64209"] If I understand this correctly, the problem is: [I]When one character overshadows/is overpowered compared to the others.[/I] Then the question that follows is: [I]Who is to blame, the player or the system?[/I] Naturally, if the system could not be "misused", then this would not be possible. So, a perfect system would "take care of" problem players. Naturally, if the player did not abuse the rules, then this would not be possible. So a perfect player would "take care of" problem systems. The answer is either/or. No player is perfect and no system is perfect. It is a matter of degree in both cases. The perfect player who finds "uber broken option in splat book #417" and fails to realize that it is broken is no different from the perfect player who finds "uber broken option in core rulebook 1". The system, though, is more shaky at its very core. The opposite is true as well. The nearly perfect system with the "uber jerk power gamer" who finds its one hidden flaw is no different from the nearly perfect system with the "hey I found this one powerful thing that seems cool this one time" player. The player results in the same disruption of game, despite being less of a power gamer. So there are some players who are better and worse and some systems that are better and worse for this. How do you fix it? I see three main options. The one I like best is to have a "player pow-wow" to determine the power level of the game. They self enforce through good communication what they're shooting for. The next best one IMO is the "DM fix". When some players get overpowered, the DM catches the others up. This is easily done with specific magic items, story based allies, drinks from magic fountains, etc. The final, and worst option is to trap the players with a cage of rules. Polymorph too powerful? No longer an option. No more splatbooks except what the DM approves, etc. This last one only encourages those with a predisposition to powergame to find the loopholes in the new DM rules and exploit those. Regarding 3e versus 4e, both systems are problematic. 3e had infinite options, especially at the end. The more you deviated from core, have power creep, etc. the more explioitable options there were. Even in core there were some, and I believe that is what the OP is getting at. (Druids, teleport, etc). 4e has a "tighter" core to begin with. However, the "everything is core" philosophy will cause it to quickly catch up to 3e in terms of being able to be exploited. If the splatbooks are core, then it is less understandable that they be "broken". So, while the core of 3e was looser than the original core of 4e, both systems, at their core have a number of exploits, and the core of 4e continues to expand, eventually (potentially) overtaking 3e despite the 4e system being more balanced as a whole. [/QUOTE]
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