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Problems with Tales from the Yawning Portal
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<blockquote data-quote="pukunui" data-source="post: 7147001" data-attributes="member: 54629"><p>Hi folks,</p><p></p><p>Much like I did with <em><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468666-Problems-with-Princes-of-the-Apocalypse" target="_blank">Princes of the Apocalypse</a></em>, I'm working on compiling a list of all the major and minor errors and discrepancies in <em>Tales from the Yawning Portal</em>. Considering that much of what was on the PotA list made it into that adventure's official errata, it's possible the same thing might happen here.</p><p></p><p>Here's what we've got so far:</p><p></p><p><strong>MAP ISSUES</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Map 1.1: Fortress Level, Room 10:</strong> The map shows a statue icon in every alcove, despite the fact that the text on pg 15 makes it clear there should not be one in the southwestern alcove (as that is where the quasit was originally bound as a guardian).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Map 1.1: Fortress Level, Room 30:</strong> This room appears to be an open balcony with a parapet on the map, although this is not backed up by the room's description on pg 21. [It is worth noting, however, that the read-aloud text from the original 3e module includes the following line: "The northern wall is smashed, opening on rubble-strewn darkness."]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Map 6.1: Hill Giant Stronghold, Upper Level, Room 5:</strong> The maids' chamber has no door. According to the map from the original adventure, there should be a door on the east wall, opening into the hallway.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Giant Strongholds, General:</strong> Most corridors in all three Giant Lairs are too narrow for the Giants to actually fight in without squeezing, which is a significant penalty in 5e. This is a hang-over from the AD&D days, when most giants were Large not Huge; the 5e maps have not been re-sized. DM's might prefer to enlarge the maps, or allow their giants to be Large, given it's assumed that the Giants built their own lairs hence would size them appropriately.</li> </ul><p></p><p><strong>TEXT ERRORS</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Ravine: </strong>The description of the ravine conflicts with the description of the ledge and doesn't match the map very well. Also the description of the age of the rope conflicts with the age of the camp fires, tracks, and introductory summary.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Dragon Door Lock:</strong> The description of the locked door in area 6 on the fortress level of <em>The Sunless Citadel</em> (pg 14) indicates that one can make a Dex check with thieves' tools to bypass the magical lock. This check should actually be for the mechanical lock.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Underdark Access:</strong> In area 23 of the fortress level of <em>The Sunless Citadel</em> (pg 19), the read-aloud text incorrectly puts the Underdark tunnel on the east side of the room. It is actually on the west side.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Practice Range:</strong> In area 33 of the fortress level of <em>The Sunless Citadel</em> (pg 22), it states that if things go badly, one of the goblins "attempts to warn the goblin warriors in area 39." The problem is, there are no goblin warriors in area 39. Presumably this is meant to refer to the goblin <em>bandits</em> in the area 36 to the north of this room (there is another area 36 to the south of area 39).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Tloques-Popolocas:</strong> They should have done a proper statblock for this guy. He's got some problems, as well as some fiddly and/or vague modifications. For starters, the text seems confused as to whether or not he's got a <em>ring of protection</em>. On page 68, it says he does, but then later it says his "normal AC" is 17. If he had a <em>ring of protection</em>, it would be 18. On page 69, under Treasure, it says he has a <em>ring of fire resistance</em> and a <em>ring of animal influence</em>. In the original adventure, he *did* have a <em>ring of protection</em>. I'm guessing they swapped it out for the <em>ring of animal influence</em> so he wouldn't have too many attuned items. On top of that, there is no spellcasting ability/save DC listed for his innate <em>hold person</em> spell, and his blood-drinker ability doesn't explain how he drains the blood out of the victim (does he still bite them, or does he cut them with a claw, or what?). It also doesn't say whether he regains hit points when he drinks the blood.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Trapped Safe:</strong> On page 107, in the "Treasure" section of the Terraced Aquarium room in <em>White Plume Mountain</em>, the text states that there is a safe in the north wall that is trapped, such that if it is opened incorrectly, it causes a vibration that breaks the glass walls of the aquarium. What the text does *not* state is how to detect the trap or remove it, which is odd given the effort the designers have put into doing just that for pretty much every other trap in this book.</li> </ul><p></p><p><strong>STATBLOCK ERRORS</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Giant Subterranean Lizard</strong>: It's subterranean, meaning it lives underground, yet it can't see in the dark! I reckon it should have darkvision out to 60 feet at the very least.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Champion:</strong> The Multiattack line in the champion's statblock indicates that it can make two attacks with its shortbow, even though it is actually armed with a light crossbow. This same error appears in the champion statblock in <em>Volo's Guide to Monsters</em>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Choker:</strong> The choker's Challenge line reads "1 (100 XP)". That should either be "1 (200 XP)" or "1/2 (100 XP)". It is unclear which.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Conjurer:</strong> The conjurer's conjuration cantrips have asterisks, even though they are not "Conjuration spells of 1st level or higher". This same error appears in the conjurer statblock in <em>Volo's Guide to Monsters</em>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Evoker:</strong> The evoker's Sculpt Spells trait reads: "When the evoker casts an evocation spell that forces other creatures it can see, it can choose ..." It would appear some words are missing, probably "to make a saving throw". This same error appears in the evoker statblock in <em>Volo's Guide to Monsters</em>.</li> </ul><p></p><p><strong>MINOR DISCREPANCIES</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Old Yarrack:</strong> In room 8 of <em>T</em><em>he Forge of Fury</em> (pg 42), room 11 is referred to after mentioning Old Yarrack. Room 11 has nothing to with Old Yarrack, and this should probably be room 14, the location of Old Yarrack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Rug of Smothering:</strong> The rug of smothering in Arundil's Chambers in <em>The Forge of Fury</em> (pg 57) is described as being "Gargantuan" with a capital G. This suggests that we are meant to adjust the default rug's statblock to take into account its change in size, however the text does not note what all changes should be made. At the very least, it should have 63 (6d20) hit points. You may want to make it so it can grapple Huge or smaller creatures and perhaps even deal more damage. These changes may affect its CR as well.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Giant Crayfish:</strong> According to the statblock on page 235, a giant crayfish has an Intelligence of 1 and can't speak. However, the giant crayfish in <em>The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan</em> (pg 66) can speak Olman.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Xipe:</strong> With one exception (his innate spells), Xipe the oni from <em>The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan</em> appears to use the default oni stats from the MM. This means he has chainmail armor and wields a glaive. However, it's worth noting that, in the full page artwork on page 60, he appears to not be wearing any armor and is wielding a cat-o-nine-tails scourge.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Conjurer vs Tarul Var:</strong> Both the generic conjurer and the conjurer lich Tarul Var have the Benign Transposition ability. However, while it's only a bonus action for the generic conjurer, it costs Var an action to use. Not sure if this was deliberate or an oversight. Also, while the abilities are otherwise effectively the same, they are worded slightly differently as well.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Demiliches:</strong> Acererak's entry in <em>Tomb of Horrors</em> specifically states that he is a demilich with the Trap the Soul action and access to lair actions. Kazit Gul's entry in <em>Dead in Thay</em> does not specifically state this. However, there is a paragraph talking about how souls trapped in his gem teeth can be released after he's been killed by crushing them. Since Gul does not appear to have the Trap the Soul action, this paragraph appears to be extraneous and should probably be ignored.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Sleep Poison:</strong> In the <em>Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan</em>, there are two instances where a kind of sleep poison (in gas form in area 7 [pg 67] and in liquid form in area 22 [pg 75]) can be dispelled with "<em>dispel magic</em> using a spell slot of 7th level or higher". Not only is this is impossible for PCs of levels 5-7, but it also goes against how the <em>dispel magic</em> spell works. One ought to be able to dispel the effect with <em>dispel magic</em> cast at 3rd level, as long as the caster succeeds on a DC 17 spellcasting ability check.</li> </ul><p></p><p><strong>THINGS TO NOTE</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Sorcerers:</strong> It would appear that, in this book at least, NPC sorcerers are assumed to have a number of sorcery points equal to their sorcerer level, which they have already spent on gaining extra spell slots. Cases in point: Yusdrayl, the kobold leader in <em>The Sunless Citadel</em>, is a 2nd level sorcerer with four 1st level slots, while Kaarghaz, the troglodyte chieftain in <em>The Forge of Fury</em>, is a 4th level sorcerer with six 1st level slots. Jeremy Crawford confirmed this via Twitter: <em>"If a monster, like Kaarghaz, has more spell slots than normal and is a sorcerer, you know what it spent its sorcery points on."</em></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Rat Swarm:</strong> The swarm of rats in the Court of Cemanhuac in <em>The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan</em> (pg 71) says it is <em>"made up of diseased giant rats."</em> This would most likely mean that it is a Large swarm with 31 (7d10 - 7) hit points. Or you could just go with the "swarm of rats (diseased, as giant rats)" entry from the random encounters table (pg 64), in which case you just need to add the effects of the giant rat disease to the statblock.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Olman Scroll of Stone Shape:</strong> In <em>The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan</em>, there is a <em>scroll of stone shape</em> that is "written in astrological symbols of the Olman" (pg 81). It is unclear whether this is just fluff text or whether it should have a mechanical effect (eg. Having the spell on your class spell list isn't enough to be able to cast the spell from the scroll, you must also be able to read Olman).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Ctenmiir:</strong> Vampires don't normally have truesight, but apparently this guy does. That's fine; it just doesn't give a range limit. 120 feet is a safe bet, though, as that's what all the monsters with truesight in the MM have. Also, Ctenmiir was originally a dwarf. This is not mentioned in the adventure text, but it is mentioned in the entry for <em>Whelm</em> in the DMG (pg 218). You might want to consider adjusting the vampire statblock to take this into account.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Waythe:</strong> The intelligent greatsword found in the hill giant steading is listed as having a Wisdom of 2. This may or may not be an error.</li> </ul><p></p><p>If you spot anything, please let me know and I'll add it to the list.</p><p>EDIT: I've made this thread a wiki thread. If you add something to the list, please try to keep to the above format.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Cheers,</p><p>Jonathan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pukunui, post: 7147001, member: 54629"] Hi folks, Much like I did with [I][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468666-Problems-with-Princes-of-the-Apocalypse"]Princes of the Apocalypse[/URL][/I], I'm working on compiling a list of all the major and minor errors and discrepancies in [I]Tales from the Yawning Portal[/I]. Considering that much of what was on the PotA list made it into that adventure's official errata, it's possible the same thing might happen here. Here's what we've got so far: [B]MAP ISSUES[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Map 1.1: Fortress Level, Room 10:[/B] The map shows a statue icon in every alcove, despite the fact that the text on pg 15 makes it clear there should not be one in the southwestern alcove (as that is where the quasit was originally bound as a guardian). [*][B]Map 1.1: Fortress Level, Room 30:[/B] This room appears to be an open balcony with a parapet on the map, although this is not backed up by the room's description on pg 21. [It is worth noting, however, that the read-aloud text from the original 3e module includes the following line: "The northern wall is smashed, opening on rubble-strewn darkness."] [*][B]Map 6.1: Hill Giant Stronghold, Upper Level, Room 5:[/B] The maids' chamber has no door. According to the map from the original adventure, there should be a door on the east wall, opening into the hallway. [*][B]Giant Strongholds, General:[/B] Most corridors in all three Giant Lairs are too narrow for the Giants to actually fight in without squeezing, which is a significant penalty in 5e. This is a hang-over from the AD&D days, when most giants were Large not Huge; the 5e maps have not been re-sized. DM's might prefer to enlarge the maps, or allow their giants to be Large, given it's assumed that the Giants built their own lairs hence would size them appropriately. [/LIST] [B]TEXT ERRORS [/B] [LIST] [*][B]Ravine: [/B]The description of the ravine conflicts with the description of the ledge and doesn't match the map very well. Also the description of the age of the rope conflicts with the age of the camp fires, tracks, and introductory summary. [*][B]Dragon Door Lock:[/B] The description of the locked door in area 6 on the fortress level of [I]The Sunless Citadel[/I] (pg 14) indicates that one can make a Dex check with thieves' tools to bypass the magical lock. This check should actually be for the mechanical lock. [*][B]Underdark Access:[/B] In area 23 of the fortress level of [I]The Sunless Citadel[/I] (pg 19), the read-aloud text incorrectly puts the Underdark tunnel on the east side of the room. It is actually on the west side. [*][B]Practice Range:[/B] In area 33 of the fortress level of [I]The Sunless Citadel[/I] (pg 22), it states that if things go badly, one of the goblins "attempts to warn the goblin warriors in area 39." The problem is, there are no goblin warriors in area 39. Presumably this is meant to refer to the goblin [I]bandits[/I] in the area 36 to the north of this room (there is another area 36 to the south of area 39). [*][B]Tloques-Popolocas:[/B] They should have done a proper statblock for this guy. He's got some problems, as well as some fiddly and/or vague modifications. For starters, the text seems confused as to whether or not he's got a [I]ring of protection[/I]. On page 68, it says he does, but then later it says his "normal AC" is 17. If he had a [I]ring of protection[/I], it would be 18. On page 69, under Treasure, it says he has a [I]ring of fire resistance[/I] and a [I]ring of animal influence[/I]. In the original adventure, he *did* have a [I]ring of protection[/I]. I'm guessing they swapped it out for the [I]ring of animal influence[/I] so he wouldn't have too many attuned items. On top of that, there is no spellcasting ability/save DC listed for his innate [I]hold person[/I] spell, and his blood-drinker ability doesn't explain how he drains the blood out of the victim (does he still bite them, or does he cut them with a claw, or what?). It also doesn't say whether he regains hit points when he drinks the blood. [*][B]Trapped Safe:[/B] On page 107, in the "Treasure" section of the Terraced Aquarium room in [I]White Plume Mountain[/I], the text states that there is a safe in the north wall that is trapped, such that if it is opened incorrectly, it causes a vibration that breaks the glass walls of the aquarium. What the text does *not* state is how to detect the trap or remove it, which is odd given the effort the designers have put into doing just that for pretty much every other trap in this book. [/LIST] [B]STATBLOCK ERRORS[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Giant Subterranean Lizard[/B]: It's subterranean, meaning it lives underground, yet it can't see in the dark! I reckon it should have darkvision out to 60 feet at the very least. [*][B]Champion:[/B] The Multiattack line in the champion's statblock indicates that it can make two attacks with its shortbow, even though it is actually armed with a light crossbow. This same error appears in the champion statblock in [I]Volo's Guide to Monsters[/I]. [*][B]Choker:[/B] The choker's Challenge line reads "1 (100 XP)". That should either be "1 (200 XP)" or "1/2 (100 XP)". It is unclear which. [*][B]Conjurer:[/B] The conjurer's conjuration cantrips have asterisks, even though they are not "Conjuration spells of 1st level or higher". This same error appears in the conjurer statblock in [I]Volo's Guide to Monsters[/I]. [*][B]Evoker:[/B] The evoker's Sculpt Spells trait reads: "When the evoker casts an evocation spell that forces other creatures it can see, it can choose ..." It would appear some words are missing, probably "to make a saving throw". This same error appears in the evoker statblock in [I]Volo's Guide to Monsters[/I]. [/LIST] [B]MINOR DISCREPANCIES [/B] [LIST] [*][B]Old Yarrack:[/B] In room 8 of [I]T[/I][I]he Forge of Fury[/I] (pg 42), room 11 is referred to after mentioning Old Yarrack. Room 11 has nothing to with Old Yarrack, and this should probably be room 14, the location of Old Yarrack. [*][B]Rug of Smothering:[/B] The rug of smothering in Arundil's Chambers in [I]The Forge of Fury[/I] (pg 57) is described as being "Gargantuan" with a capital G. This suggests that we are meant to adjust the default rug's statblock to take into account its change in size, however the text does not note what all changes should be made. At the very least, it should have 63 (6d20) hit points. You may want to make it so it can grapple Huge or smaller creatures and perhaps even deal more damage. These changes may affect its CR as well. [*][B]Giant Crayfish:[/B] According to the statblock on page 235, a giant crayfish has an Intelligence of 1 and can't speak. However, the giant crayfish in [I]The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan[/I] (pg 66) can speak Olman. [*][B]Xipe:[/B] With one exception (his innate spells), Xipe the oni from [I]The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan[/I] appears to use the default oni stats from the MM. This means he has chainmail armor and wields a glaive. However, it's worth noting that, in the full page artwork on page 60, he appears to not be wearing any armor and is wielding a cat-o-nine-tails scourge. [*][B]Conjurer vs Tarul Var:[/B] Both the generic conjurer and the conjurer lich Tarul Var have the Benign Transposition ability. However, while it's only a bonus action for the generic conjurer, it costs Var an action to use. Not sure if this was deliberate or an oversight. Also, while the abilities are otherwise effectively the same, they are worded slightly differently as well. [*][B]Demiliches:[/B] Acererak's entry in [I]Tomb of Horrors[/I] specifically states that he is a demilich with the Trap the Soul action and access to lair actions. Kazit Gul's entry in [I]Dead in Thay[/I] does not specifically state this. However, there is a paragraph talking about how souls trapped in his gem teeth can be released after he's been killed by crushing them. Since Gul does not appear to have the Trap the Soul action, this paragraph appears to be extraneous and should probably be ignored. [*][B]Sleep Poison:[/B] In the [I]Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan[/I], there are two instances where a kind of sleep poison (in gas form in area 7 [pg 67] and in liquid form in area 22 [pg 75]) can be dispelled with "[I]dispel magic[/I] using a spell slot of 7th level or higher". Not only is this is impossible for PCs of levels 5-7, but it also goes against how the [I]dispel magic[/I] spell works. One ought to be able to dispel the effect with [I]dispel magic[/I] cast at 3rd level, as long as the caster succeeds on a DC 17 spellcasting ability check. [/LIST] [B]THINGS TO NOTE[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Sorcerers:[/B] It would appear that, in this book at least, NPC sorcerers are assumed to have a number of sorcery points equal to their sorcerer level, which they have already spent on gaining extra spell slots. Cases in point: Yusdrayl, the kobold leader in [I]The Sunless Citadel[/I], is a 2nd level sorcerer with four 1st level slots, while Kaarghaz, the troglodyte chieftain in [I]The Forge of Fury[/I], is a 4th level sorcerer with six 1st level slots. Jeremy Crawford confirmed this via Twitter: [I]"If a monster, like Kaarghaz, has more spell slots than normal and is a sorcerer, you know what it spent its sorcery points on."[/I] [*][B]Rat Swarm:[/B] The swarm of rats in the Court of Cemanhuac in [I]The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan[/I] (pg 71) says it is [I]"made up of diseased giant rats."[/I] This would most likely mean that it is a Large swarm with 31 (7d10 - 7) hit points. Or you could just go with the "swarm of rats (diseased, as giant rats)" entry from the random encounters table (pg 64), in which case you just need to add the effects of the giant rat disease to the statblock. [*][B]Olman Scroll of Stone Shape:[/B] In [I]The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan[/I], there is a [I]scroll of stone shape[/I] that is "written in astrological symbols of the Olman" (pg 81). It is unclear whether this is just fluff text or whether it should have a mechanical effect (eg. Having the spell on your class spell list isn't enough to be able to cast the spell from the scroll, you must also be able to read Olman). [*][B]Ctenmiir:[/B] Vampires don't normally have truesight, but apparently this guy does. That's fine; it just doesn't give a range limit. 120 feet is a safe bet, though, as that's what all the monsters with truesight in the MM have. Also, Ctenmiir was originally a dwarf. This is not mentioned in the adventure text, but it is mentioned in the entry for [I]Whelm[/I] in the DMG (pg 218). You might want to consider adjusting the vampire statblock to take this into account. [*][B]Waythe:[/B] The intelligent greatsword found in the hill giant steading is listed as having a Wisdom of 2. This may or may not be an error. [/LIST] If you spot anything, please let me know and I'll add it to the list. EDIT: I've made this thread a wiki thread. If you add something to the list, please try to keep to the above format. Cheers, Jonathan [/QUOTE]
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