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Community
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Proficiencies don't make the class. Do they?
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6605146" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Ow, my petard! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Good point, though! </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think this is pretty true, which is why I'd welcome a new class that really <em>earned that place</em>. Put enough work into any of these archetypes and you can get a narrative distinction, a reason to exist, a unique mechanic...there's nothing inherently stopping the artificer or psion or warlord from being that. Look at the paladin, ranger, sorcerer, or warlock for a look at classes that could've been folded in but that maintained their distinction by having those unique roles, unique stories, and unique mechanics. Rangers aren't just fighters with a particular proficiency load out or some spellcasting in 5e. They could've been, but they have unique and specialized mechanics all their own - namely the natural awareness and the travel abilities, which is well beyond "I have proficiency in Survival and Nature."</p><p></p><p>My main thrust is that proficiencies, skills, and spell selections are inadequate to achieve that escape velocity. You aren't not a wizard because you have medium armor, wield a hammer, and cast buff spells. You need more than that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My point is that if dwarves can do it, it's not hard to let ANYONE do it - we're not talking about a unique mechanic, we're just talking about a few proficiencies. And the test-artificer had healing (they made potions, much like the 4e artificer). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Spellbook's just an item, mechanically, and an infusion is basically the same thing as a spell. And I think that much like you have a fighter subclass beingl a 1/3rd caster, you could have a wizard subclass being a half-caster, if you wanted (heck, I'd be eager to see it!). </p><p></p><p>None of those are narrative distinction or unique roes in the world or specialized mechanics. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Psionics instead of magic" has tended to mean, mechanically, spending points. Guess what the DMG has? <em>Spell points.</em> Now the psion isn't any different from a sorcerer spending spell points. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, you could be a fighter who uses a longsword, a shield, and chainmail, with a high CHA and a respectable DEX and you'd be a lot like a bard with superiority dice. But I don't imagine people who really miss the warlord class would agree that either of these solutions is "enough." </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This, plus the preponderance of people proposing classes other than the wizard as homes for the artificer due to skills or weapons or armor or spell lists, were some of the big reasons I started the thread. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>Keep it coming, folks! Let me know what is big enough for a class in your book! Perhaps my standards are too high. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6605146, member: 2067"] Ow, my petard! :) Good point, though! I think this is pretty true, which is why I'd welcome a new class that really [I]earned that place[/I]. Put enough work into any of these archetypes and you can get a narrative distinction, a reason to exist, a unique mechanic...there's nothing inherently stopping the artificer or psion or warlord from being that. Look at the paladin, ranger, sorcerer, or warlock for a look at classes that could've been folded in but that maintained their distinction by having those unique roles, unique stories, and unique mechanics. Rangers aren't just fighters with a particular proficiency load out or some spellcasting in 5e. They could've been, but they have unique and specialized mechanics all their own - namely the natural awareness and the travel abilities, which is well beyond "I have proficiency in Survival and Nature." My main thrust is that proficiencies, skills, and spell selections are inadequate to achieve that escape velocity. You aren't not a wizard because you have medium armor, wield a hammer, and cast buff spells. You need more than that. My point is that if dwarves can do it, it's not hard to let ANYONE do it - we're not talking about a unique mechanic, we're just talking about a few proficiencies. And the test-artificer had healing (they made potions, much like the 4e artificer). Spellbook's just an item, mechanically, and an infusion is basically the same thing as a spell. And I think that much like you have a fighter subclass beingl a 1/3rd caster, you could have a wizard subclass being a half-caster, if you wanted (heck, I'd be eager to see it!). None of those are narrative distinction or unique roes in the world or specialized mechanics. "Psionics instead of magic" has tended to mean, mechanically, spending points. Guess what the DMG has? [I]Spell points.[/I] Now the psion isn't any different from a sorcerer spending spell points. I mean, you could be a fighter who uses a longsword, a shield, and chainmail, with a high CHA and a respectable DEX and you'd be a lot like a bard with superiority dice. But I don't imagine people who really miss the warlord class would agree that either of these solutions is "enough." This, plus the preponderance of people proposing classes other than the wizard as homes for the artificer due to skills or weapons or armor or spell lists, were some of the big reasons I started the thread. ;) Keep it coming, folks! Let me know what is big enough for a class in your book! Perhaps my standards are too high. :) [/QUOTE]
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Proficiencies don't make the class. Do they?
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