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Proficiencies don't make the class. Do they?
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<blockquote data-quote="neobolts" data-source="post: 6605292" data-attributes="member: 65244"><p><strong>Flavor. </strong>At the end of the day, a concept has to have so much unique flavor that it feels wholly unnatural being under the umbrella of something else. It's a pretty subjective determination, which is why consensus is difficult. Essentially the flavor of a class is a collectively accepted starting point, a minimum set of tropes that define the class. Something that carries a unique set of tropes is clearly its own class. Something that has all the tropes of a class plus a twist is clearly a subclass. When something cherry picks tropes from multiple classes and then sprinkles in its own...then everything falls apart. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /></p><p></p><p>Bard in prior editions, for example...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They were under the umbrella of a multiclass fighter/thief/druid in 1e.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Then they were classified under rogue in 2e.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They were their own class in 3e.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">And again their own class with the arcane power source in 4e.</li> </ul><p>Whether or not they are deserving of their own class is a complex issue, they have flavor elements of one or more other classes, in part due to 2e's dabbler concept for them.</p><p></p><p>Now let's take on another (intentionally ridiculous) example. Let's apply fighter as a wizard subclass. They are essentially wizards that abstain from magical training in order to focus on physical training and weapon and armor use. It could work on paper, but the flavor is all wrong.</p><p></p><p>Artificer has the problem the bard example has. Its a little bit of multiple other classes, plus a healthy dose of its own character and assumed unique abilities. The problem is making it a class is <em>too big </em>and a subclass feels <em>too small</em>. Plus there's the problem of being in conflict with the class tropes of whatever class it is placed under. There's just no easy answer to get the flavor right.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="neobolts, post: 6605292, member: 65244"] [B]Flavor. [/B]At the end of the day, a concept has to have so much unique flavor that it feels wholly unnatural being under the umbrella of something else. It's a pretty subjective determination, which is why consensus is difficult. Essentially the flavor of a class is a collectively accepted starting point, a minimum set of tropes that define the class. Something that carries a unique set of tropes is clearly its own class. Something that has all the tropes of a class plus a twist is clearly a subclass. When something cherry picks tropes from multiple classes and then sprinkles in its own...then everything falls apart. :erm: Bard in prior editions, for example... [LIST] [*]They were under the umbrella of a multiclass fighter/thief/druid in 1e. [*]Then they were classified under rogue in 2e. [*]They were their own class in 3e. [*]And again their own class with the arcane power source in 4e. [/LIST] Whether or not they are deserving of their own class is a complex issue, they have flavor elements of one or more other classes, in part due to 2e's dabbler concept for them. Now let's take on another (intentionally ridiculous) example. Let's apply fighter as a wizard subclass. They are essentially wizards that abstain from magical training in order to focus on physical training and weapon and armor use. It could work on paper, but the flavor is all wrong. Artificer has the problem the bard example has. Its a little bit of multiple other classes, plus a healthy dose of its own character and assumed unique abilities. The problem is making it a class is [I]too big [/I]and a subclass feels [I]too small[/I]. Plus there's the problem of being in conflict with the class tropes of whatever class it is placed under. There's just no easy answer to get the flavor right. [/QUOTE]
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Proficiencies don't make the class. Do they?
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