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(Proposal) Flaws
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<blockquote data-quote="Trouvere" data-source="post: 5427533" data-attributes="member: 37250"><p>[sblock=Overly long collection of comments]I think we can assume very few people would take a flaw unless they thought the benefit of the bonus feat outweighed the disadvantage.</p><p></p><p>What wizard wouldn't take one or two of Noncombatant, Shaky and Feeble? She could frontload with feats that lack prerequisites, such as Spell Focus or Skill Focus (Spellcraft), all required to enter Archmage, or metamagic feats that will become useful later. This leaves the later slots free for item creation feats that have a CL prerequisite. There are no difficult choices left to make. That's quite an upgrade.</p><p></p><p>Psions can likewise frontload with metapsionic feats, freeing their later slots for Expanded Knowledge of higher level powers. That's another big upgrade. There are other attractive possibilities - Improved Psicrystal twice, for a 3rd level psicrystal and, effectively, two Skill Focus feats? Psionic Talent twice, for an extra 5 PP at 1st level? Or four times in all, for 20 PP at 1st level? That's a lot of manifesting, compared to any other PC It makes the sorcerer's 5/4 seem a bit sad. Bear in mind, a Psion can eventually use Psychic Reformation to rejig feat choices.</p><p></p><p>A heavy armor Cleric with Dex 8 or 10 (and good Con), which is most of them, might as well take Poor Reflexes, because they're not passing any Reflex saves anyway.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure that fighter types (especially feat-rich Fighters specifically) benefit enormously in the long-term, but as covaithe has pointed out, at low levels those extra two feats make a massive difference. It's very nice to get a head start along feat chains. It's nice even just to have Improved Initiative as a bonus feat.</p><p></p><p>There's a general weakening of humans with respect to other races. Instead of getting two feats to everyone else's one, they're getting three versus two, or four versus three. Moreover, there's a case to be made that nonhumans with their various racial bonuses can more easily absorb the effects of a flaw. For instance, the Frail flaw is automatically cancelled by a dwarf or gnome's Con bonus, leaving them as the equivalent of a human with lots of additional bonuses, though fewer skill points.</p><p></p><p>[Incidentally, I think the Pathetic flaw, while extremely tempting for those with no need for Str or Cha, would rarely be an option, except for orc PCs, because with 30 pt buy nearly everyone will have an ability modifier total of 8 or more. It's pretty difficult not to.]</p><p></p><p>But then, biggest of all... is the comparison between new characters with flaws, and old characters without them, bearing in mind that the majority of the 'old' characters are still only 1st to 4th level. The 'flawless' PCs really wouldn't be able to hold a candle to the 'flawed'.</p><p></p><p>So, would we retrospectively allow flaws for preexisting PCs? So many of the flaws seem like inherent traits, not something that can be acquired later. orsal's already expressed a negative opinion on this, and I'd agree. I'd wonder about the in-world mechanism. An epidemic of gimping-flu??</p><p></p><p>Obviously PCs above 1st level who gained flaws could still only choose feats they could have qualified for at 1st level. But that's another problem. Surely we have had a nonhuman Dex Rogue who took Point Blank Shot at 1st level, then had to wait for Precise Shot until 3rd, enduring all those arrows that missed by 4, and at that point make a hard decision whether to go for Weapon Finesse instead... then ended up throwing away 6 skill points and sneak attack progression on a Fighter dip to gain both feats before the incredibly distant 6th level, which at PbP speed might be three years away. I don't really care if a player makes choices that I consider suboptimal, but these players would be being punished for making sensible, standard build choices!</p><p></p><p>Seems to me that allowing flaws would unfairly create two tiers of PCs, whether only new PCs get the almost free bonus feats, or old PCs are revamped.</p><p></p><p>If we were starting from a clean slate with the lessons learned from LEW - and I think the big one is just how sllllooooowww level progression is in PbP, such that you spend years waiting for your PC to become halfway competent, and iterative attacks are a distant dream for most - then frontloading abilities using flaws might be a good idea, but as it is, I think not.[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trouvere, post: 5427533, member: 37250"] [sblock=Overly long collection of comments]I think we can assume very few people would take a flaw unless they thought the benefit of the bonus feat outweighed the disadvantage. What wizard wouldn't take one or two of Noncombatant, Shaky and Feeble? She could frontload with feats that lack prerequisites, such as Spell Focus or Skill Focus (Spellcraft), all required to enter Archmage, or metamagic feats that will become useful later. This leaves the later slots free for item creation feats that have a CL prerequisite. There are no difficult choices left to make. That's quite an upgrade. Psions can likewise frontload with metapsionic feats, freeing their later slots for Expanded Knowledge of higher level powers. That's another big upgrade. There are other attractive possibilities - Improved Psicrystal twice, for a 3rd level psicrystal and, effectively, two Skill Focus feats? Psionic Talent twice, for an extra 5 PP at 1st level? Or four times in all, for 20 PP at 1st level? That's a lot of manifesting, compared to any other PC It makes the sorcerer's 5/4 seem a bit sad. Bear in mind, a Psion can eventually use Psychic Reformation to rejig feat choices. A heavy armor Cleric with Dex 8 or 10 (and good Con), which is most of them, might as well take Poor Reflexes, because they're not passing any Reflex saves anyway. I'm not sure that fighter types (especially feat-rich Fighters specifically) benefit enormously in the long-term, but as covaithe has pointed out, at low levels those extra two feats make a massive difference. It's very nice to get a head start along feat chains. It's nice even just to have Improved Initiative as a bonus feat. There's a general weakening of humans with respect to other races. Instead of getting two feats to everyone else's one, they're getting three versus two, or four versus three. Moreover, there's a case to be made that nonhumans with their various racial bonuses can more easily absorb the effects of a flaw. For instance, the Frail flaw is automatically cancelled by a dwarf or gnome's Con bonus, leaving them as the equivalent of a human with lots of additional bonuses, though fewer skill points. [Incidentally, I think the Pathetic flaw, while extremely tempting for those with no need for Str or Cha, would rarely be an option, except for orc PCs, because with 30 pt buy nearly everyone will have an ability modifier total of 8 or more. It's pretty difficult not to.] But then, biggest of all... is the comparison between new characters with flaws, and old characters without them, bearing in mind that the majority of the 'old' characters are still only 1st to 4th level. The 'flawless' PCs really wouldn't be able to hold a candle to the 'flawed'. So, would we retrospectively allow flaws for preexisting PCs? So many of the flaws seem like inherent traits, not something that can be acquired later. orsal's already expressed a negative opinion on this, and I'd agree. I'd wonder about the in-world mechanism. An epidemic of gimping-flu?? Obviously PCs above 1st level who gained flaws could still only choose feats they could have qualified for at 1st level. But that's another problem. Surely we have had a nonhuman Dex Rogue who took Point Blank Shot at 1st level, then had to wait for Precise Shot until 3rd, enduring all those arrows that missed by 4, and at that point make a hard decision whether to go for Weapon Finesse instead... then ended up throwing away 6 skill points and sneak attack progression on a Fighter dip to gain both feats before the incredibly distant 6th level, which at PbP speed might be three years away. I don't really care if a player makes choices that I consider suboptimal, but these players would be being punished for making sensible, standard build choices! Seems to me that allowing flaws would unfairly create two tiers of PCs, whether only new PCs get the almost free bonus feats, or old PCs are revamped. If we were starting from a clean slate with the lessons learned from LEW - and I think the big one is just how sllllooooowww level progression is in PbP, such that you spend years waiting for your PC to become halfway competent, and iterative attacks are a distant dream for most - then frontloading abilities using flaws might be a good idea, but as it is, I think not.[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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