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Proposal: Things to be nerfed
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<blockquote data-quote="Oni" data-source="post: 4801553" data-attributes="member: 380"><p>Hurm, a lot of those look familiar. </p><p></p><p>Anyway I'm pretty much in agreement, but let me go down the list. </p><p></p><p>Bloodiron: The problem I see with this weapon is why would anyone use a vicious weapon once they can get one of these. On the other hand the problem with a vicious weapon is that you can get something with nearly as high a crit die that actually does something else so why bother with a vicious weapon to start with. Mostly I don't see a problem with bloodiron weapons because they're unreliable and when they do go off they add a decent amount of damage but nothing encounter breaking IMHO. +6 vicious weapons adds an avg of 39 damage on a crit. +6 bloodiron weapons adds 66 damage on avg assuming the monster doesn't die before the start of your next turn anyway. </p><p></p><p>Bloodclaw: This one is hard to defend, the damage output is pretty crazy. However I actually think it is the more balanced of the two between this and reckless because this at least will seriously kill the user if over used very much. Multi-attacks are really the broken thing there because of the stacking of static bonuses, but they're much harder to get purge from the game. </p><p></p><p>Reckless: There's no defending this weapon as written in my eyes, because penalties from the same source don't stack...Crap tons of static damage for an almost laughable penalty and it even gets a d8 crit die. </p><p></p><p>Radiant: My only real problem with this is the interaction with the Student of Caiphon PP combined with an Avenger. The damage bonus is an item bonus so it's not going to stack with something like Iron Armbands of Power, which is presumably the go to item if you're not using this. Radiant damage is nice since a decent subset of monsters are actually vulnerable to it and few resist it, but this weapon is decently more expensive than it's fire and frost cousins. Honestly I think this is less of a problem outside of the SoC interaction than the infamous frost weapon+lasting frost+wintertouched cheese. </p><p></p><p>Rain of Blows: Well...there aren't even any ranger powers that give this many attacks anywhere near that level. The weapon limitation is somewhat annoying but it's not like flails and spears are really all that light on damage. If you're building for this power it's too good and low enough level that it's too easy to regain additional uses. Pretty much every melee char op build I've seen abuses this in some form or another. The only thing I can really say in its defense from the player side of the table is it's hella fun to drop it on something. Suggestion, remove weapons restriction, make it a daily. </p><p></p><p>Salve of Power: Either really great or downright broken depending on your low level dailies, and there are quite a few dailies that this abuses. Getting an extra use of a low level daily is cool, but the fact that you can have multiple of these and they're relatively cheap makes it horribly busted when combined with things like Rain of Steel. I suppose you could make it so that someone can only be affected by the power 1/day, but easiest just to get rid of it IMHO. </p><p></p><p>Righteous Rage of Tempus: Well it's pretty much better than any of the other Channel Divinity feats so that says a lot right there. However I think Avengers really need this feat in a bad way since they're so lacking in any kind of nova prowess (without some pretty beefy multiclass building, which probably used RoB anyways or some kind of Half-Elven Avenger in name only abomination) which is a significant detriment to their role as a striker IMHO. Suggestion make this Channel Divinity an Avenger Class feature or an Avenger only feat without any kind of deity restriction. , it's a good hard choice between this and Divine Guidance as I'd say they're roughly on par. </p><p></p><p>Expertise: I feel required to take this feat because missing sucks. I'm not fond of a feat tax to fix a math error no one wants to own up to. On the flip side disallowing it or making it a freebie to everyone ensures that the hit gap between melee and spellcaster stays firmly in place. If you're a high accuracy class there are more interesting things to take so you're unlikely to have it until at least mid paragon, but then we're back to the same old same old. Blah. Also of note there is a similar feat in the works for weapon and implement split classes in the works for the PHB3 I believe. Suggestion, either completely drop it and its kin, or just give out a +1,+2,+3 heroic/paragon/epic bonus to hit. The ones that need that to hit the most are the ones split between weapons and implements everyone else is pretty much only going to be using their implement group or weapon of choice so you're either making people make a non-choice or punishing those that really need it most. </p><p></p><p>Now for one of my own. Echoes of Thunder, seriously who came up with this one?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oni, post: 4801553, member: 380"] Hurm, a lot of those look familiar. Anyway I'm pretty much in agreement, but let me go down the list. Bloodiron: The problem I see with this weapon is why would anyone use a vicious weapon once they can get one of these. On the other hand the problem with a vicious weapon is that you can get something with nearly as high a crit die that actually does something else so why bother with a vicious weapon to start with. Mostly I don't see a problem with bloodiron weapons because they're unreliable and when they do go off they add a decent amount of damage but nothing encounter breaking IMHO. +6 vicious weapons adds an avg of 39 damage on a crit. +6 bloodiron weapons adds 66 damage on avg assuming the monster doesn't die before the start of your next turn anyway. Bloodclaw: This one is hard to defend, the damage output is pretty crazy. However I actually think it is the more balanced of the two between this and reckless because this at least will seriously kill the user if over used very much. Multi-attacks are really the broken thing there because of the stacking of static bonuses, but they're much harder to get purge from the game. Reckless: There's no defending this weapon as written in my eyes, because penalties from the same source don't stack...Crap tons of static damage for an almost laughable penalty and it even gets a d8 crit die. Radiant: My only real problem with this is the interaction with the Student of Caiphon PP combined with an Avenger. The damage bonus is an item bonus so it's not going to stack with something like Iron Armbands of Power, which is presumably the go to item if you're not using this. Radiant damage is nice since a decent subset of monsters are actually vulnerable to it and few resist it, but this weapon is decently more expensive than it's fire and frost cousins. Honestly I think this is less of a problem outside of the SoC interaction than the infamous frost weapon+lasting frost+wintertouched cheese. Rain of Blows: Well...there aren't even any ranger powers that give this many attacks anywhere near that level. The weapon limitation is somewhat annoying but it's not like flails and spears are really all that light on damage. If you're building for this power it's too good and low enough level that it's too easy to regain additional uses. Pretty much every melee char op build I've seen abuses this in some form or another. The only thing I can really say in its defense from the player side of the table is it's hella fun to drop it on something. Suggestion, remove weapons restriction, make it a daily. Salve of Power: Either really great or downright broken depending on your low level dailies, and there are quite a few dailies that this abuses. Getting an extra use of a low level daily is cool, but the fact that you can have multiple of these and they're relatively cheap makes it horribly busted when combined with things like Rain of Steel. I suppose you could make it so that someone can only be affected by the power 1/day, but easiest just to get rid of it IMHO. Righteous Rage of Tempus: Well it's pretty much better than any of the other Channel Divinity feats so that says a lot right there. However I think Avengers really need this feat in a bad way since they're so lacking in any kind of nova prowess (without some pretty beefy multiclass building, which probably used RoB anyways or some kind of Half-Elven Avenger in name only abomination) which is a significant detriment to their role as a striker IMHO. Suggestion make this Channel Divinity an Avenger Class feature or an Avenger only feat without any kind of deity restriction. , it's a good hard choice between this and Divine Guidance as I'd say they're roughly on par. Expertise: I feel required to take this feat because missing sucks. I'm not fond of a feat tax to fix a math error no one wants to own up to. On the flip side disallowing it or making it a freebie to everyone ensures that the hit gap between melee and spellcaster stays firmly in place. If you're a high accuracy class there are more interesting things to take so you're unlikely to have it until at least mid paragon, but then we're back to the same old same old. Blah. Also of note there is a similar feat in the works for weapon and implement split classes in the works for the PHB3 I believe. Suggestion, either completely drop it and its kin, or just give out a +1,+2,+3 heroic/paragon/epic bonus to hit. The ones that need that to hit the most are the ones split between weapons and implements everyone else is pretty much only going to be using their implement group or weapon of choice so you're either making people make a non-choice or punishing those that really need it most. Now for one of my own. Echoes of Thunder, seriously who came up with this one? [/QUOTE]
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