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Pros and Cons of Epic Level Play?
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6284023" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>So does "freeing <em>someone </em>rom the influence of <em>a bad guy</em>" work better for you?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To me, we are still dealing with similar structures. But the summaries are very basic. How do they differ in play? Celebrim suggests they seem very similar "particularly if both principally involve defeating a powerful enemy in single combat." That tends to be how D&D plays out, from apprentice to epic. Now, both examples of the written word you selected involve success that cannot be achieved by beating someone up in physical combat. There is never a physical confrontation with Sauron, nor can a nation be freed from foreign influence by a gladiatorial match between Nation X and Nation Y, or their representatives.</p><p></p><p>So perhaps the question comes down to <strong><em>how</em></strong> we resolve the challenges. As I recall, your players goaded the evil advisor into attacking them so they could justify defeating him in physical combat. How will the quest to free the world from the influence of the dark god ultimately be resolved?</p><p></p><p>I think Celebrim makes the strong point that, in D&D (as in most RPG's), we solve problems by direct application of violence. We don't, for example, educate the masses as to the evils of the ark god Torog and converting his worshippers to a more benevolent religion through peaceful means like missionary work or preaching to the masses. We beat the crap out of his cultists, high priests and ultimately the Dark God himself. Just like we previously beat the crap out of a steady stream of minions of the evil advisor until, finally, we were able to corner the evil advisor and had gained enough power ourselves to defeat him in physicial combat. The prospect of victory gained by anything but beating the bad guy in physical combat is pretty much a foreign concept in RPG's.</p><p></p><p>Knowledge skills? Those are to better locate the baddie so we can beat him up, and to know his abilities and weaknesses to beat him up more effectively. Diplomacy? That's for persuading people to tell us where the baddie is and how better to beat him up, maybe even to have an ally when we administer that beating. A victory because we resist the temptation of easy power and throw the One Ring into a volcano? What kind of crap game are you running here? I want to use the power of that Artifact and deliver death to the Evil Enemy!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6284023, member: 6681948"] So does "freeing [I]someone [/I]rom the influence of [I]a bad guy[/I]" work better for you? To me, we are still dealing with similar structures. But the summaries are very basic. How do they differ in play? Celebrim suggests they seem very similar "particularly if both principally involve defeating a powerful enemy in single combat." That tends to be how D&D plays out, from apprentice to epic. Now, both examples of the written word you selected involve success that cannot be achieved by beating someone up in physical combat. There is never a physical confrontation with Sauron, nor can a nation be freed from foreign influence by a gladiatorial match between Nation X and Nation Y, or their representatives. So perhaps the question comes down to [B][I]how[/I][/B] we resolve the challenges. As I recall, your players goaded the evil advisor into attacking them so they could justify defeating him in physical combat. How will the quest to free the world from the influence of the dark god ultimately be resolved? I think Celebrim makes the strong point that, in D&D (as in most RPG's), we solve problems by direct application of violence. We don't, for example, educate the masses as to the evils of the ark god Torog and converting his worshippers to a more benevolent religion through peaceful means like missionary work or preaching to the masses. We beat the crap out of his cultists, high priests and ultimately the Dark God himself. Just like we previously beat the crap out of a steady stream of minions of the evil advisor until, finally, we were able to corner the evil advisor and had gained enough power ourselves to defeat him in physicial combat. The prospect of victory gained by anything but beating the bad guy in physical combat is pretty much a foreign concept in RPG's. Knowledge skills? Those are to better locate the baddie so we can beat him up, and to know his abilities and weaknesses to beat him up more effectively. Diplomacy? That's for persuading people to tell us where the baddie is and how better to beat him up, maybe even to have an ally when we administer that beating. A victory because we resist the temptation of easy power and throw the One Ring into a volcano? What kind of crap game are you running here? I want to use the power of that Artifact and deliver death to the Evil Enemy! [/QUOTE]
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