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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6057533" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>No. I mean power cards. Including martial attack powers. Have you ever played WHFRP 3e?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Indeed. 3e lays out "here is what we think a Barbarian is", 4e lays out "Here are five very distinct conceptions of what we think a Barbarian might be and you can mix and match building blocks from all of them". I've seen 4e barbarians so metal that when they roared to the heavens, the heavens answered their thunder with lightning. The 3e Barbarian is positively colourless alongside the 4e one - but you can cover the entire range of the 3e Barbarian with the 4e one - and have a vast array left over.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You want Ikea? Putting together prefabricated constructions with obscure names like "fiendhunter"? I'd call that the very essence of Ikea.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If that's what you mean by Ikea <em>so is 3e</em>. Each level in 3e is a snap into place part.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oberoni fallacy. Yes, you can houserule 3.X to take away all the 3.X rules and leave something less obnoxious and with less overwhelming fluff. Why not just take away 3.X - after all a full third of the PHB is spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And it's dead easy in 4e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except that reskinning doesn't work when you have overwhelming fluff mixed in with the mechanics - as for Vancian Casting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which means that the entire philosophical basis of the ECL and the CR system is impossible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No - but you need a damn good reason not to. Especially if they <em>can't</em> be ignored.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And yet it is more varied and versatile for building characters like those in fantasy fiction than 3e. 4e kicks the arse of 3e without breaking a sweat for non-caster versatility.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You've heard about the car with the wooden engine and the wooden wheels of course?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fine. Build me a Warlord with the basic set. Or build me a Barbarian who can cry to heaven and have the heavens call back. Or build me The Grey Mouser.</p><p></p><p>You're making unsubstantiated claims - back them up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's just a normal 4e wisdom based PHB cleric other than the unicorn. Skirmisher? Check. Stuns rather than kills? If you like. Doesn't do much hit point damage but heals massively? Sure if you take the right powers. Sacrifices own health for others? If you take the right powers. Seriously, that's your idea of a big challenge?</p><p></p><p>If you like you can also take the Pacifist Healer feat. At that point you're outhealing anything by a very comfortable margin including other PC clerics at the cost of taking backlash if you do <em>any</em> damage to bloodied foes. But it really isn't necessary.</p><p></p><p>Now try The Grey Mouser. Or the Thunderborn Barbarian I mentioned above. The one who's so metal he cries to heaven and the heavens answer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6057533, member: 87792"] No. I mean power cards. Including martial attack powers. Have you ever played WHFRP 3e? Indeed. 3e lays out "here is what we think a Barbarian is", 4e lays out "Here are five very distinct conceptions of what we think a Barbarian might be and you can mix and match building blocks from all of them". I've seen 4e barbarians so metal that when they roared to the heavens, the heavens answered their thunder with lightning. The 3e Barbarian is positively colourless alongside the 4e one - but you can cover the entire range of the 3e Barbarian with the 4e one - and have a vast array left over. You want Ikea? Putting together prefabricated constructions with obscure names like "fiendhunter"? I'd call that the very essence of Ikea. If that's what you mean by Ikea [I]so is 3e[/I]. Each level in 3e is a snap into place part. Oberoni fallacy. Yes, you can houserule 3.X to take away all the 3.X rules and leave something less obnoxious and with less overwhelming fluff. Why not just take away 3.X - after all a full third of the PHB is spells. And it's dead easy in 4e. Except that reskinning doesn't work when you have overwhelming fluff mixed in with the mechanics - as for Vancian Casting. Which means that the entire philosophical basis of the ECL and the CR system is impossible. No - but you need a damn good reason not to. Especially if they [I]can't[/I] be ignored. And yet it is more varied and versatile for building characters like those in fantasy fiction than 3e. 4e kicks the arse of 3e without breaking a sweat for non-caster versatility. You've heard about the car with the wooden engine and the wooden wheels of course? Fine. Build me a Warlord with the basic set. Or build me a Barbarian who can cry to heaven and have the heavens call back. Or build me The Grey Mouser. You're making unsubstantiated claims - back them up. That's just a normal 4e wisdom based PHB cleric other than the unicorn. Skirmisher? Check. Stuns rather than kills? If you like. Doesn't do much hit point damage but heals massively? Sure if you take the right powers. Sacrifices own health for others? If you take the right powers. Seriously, that's your idea of a big challenge? If you like you can also take the Pacifist Healer feat. At that point you're outhealing anything by a very comfortable margin including other PC clerics at the cost of taking backlash if you do [I]any[/I] damage to bloodied foes. But it really isn't necessary. Now try The Grey Mouser. Or the Thunderborn Barbarian I mentioned above. The one who's so metal he cries to heaven and the heavens answer. [/QUOTE]
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