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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6057771" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Do you genuinely think there are any rules involved in 3.X? Or is it really a case of "Make things up as you go along and by the way we've sold you a set of rulebooks for no particular reason". Because that's what you appear to be arguing.</p><p></p><p>You are yourself admitting that the rules of 3.5 as presented are not fit for purposeevery time you suggest house rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I get aggressive when people <em>lie</em> about 4e or assign to it things it doesn't have. Stop trying to define what it is when it is blatantly obvious you don't understand it</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From the person who defined 4e as Ikea - and then proceeded to snap together an Ikea-style silly combination for a PC this has a lot of irony.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And the thunder? His roars which get answered by lightning?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Worse and worse.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Balanced against <em>what?</em> A 3.X druid? A 3.X Monk?</p><p></p><p>As the two are spectacularly badly balanced against each other, I'm going to say no you don't.</p><p></p><p>And the carpentry concept is apparently another way of saying "This game sucks and the parts I was sold are not fit for purpose".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Citation needed for new players.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's little 4e did right at the launch. The books were badly playtested, Keep on the Shadowfell might just be the worst introductory adventure ever, and the errata was needed because 4e was thrown together in a year after they threw out Orcus for being terrible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, 4e players understand what 4e does well and what it does badly. It's superb where it rocks - but if you want fast combat or non-adventurers or a gritty game, find something else.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Mostly 3.X? I'm seeing more of a 2e influence.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ebberon. Dark Sun. Most of the Gods. Most of the archetypes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If I listen to you, 3.X "works" by homebrewing to make up for its deficiencies.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Admission of failure I see. You know you can't match it - and it's a clear way of doing something.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No you don't. I get mad when people persistantly spread distortions. It started with Luce lumping 3e and 4e into one box when they are at very different ends of the spectrum. I also consider bad game design to have to fix the designer's oversights - the amount of time you have spent running down 3.X and saying "well you could homebrew" in this thread is quite spectacular.</p><p></p><p>And I get why you are mad. 4e came out and yours was no longer the main game in town.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe it wasn't. It's trying to recreate GURPS Fantasy's design assumptions in a D&D framework. And the better you get it the worse it looks. And the less you know other games the better it looks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now there's irony. I ignore 3.X until people start comparing it to 4e. Or worse yet trying to lump the two together.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It didn't try as far as I know. And if you release a product a year early right into the teeth of a recession with improper playtesting, bad advertising, bad explanations, rules which don't work (the DMG skill challenge rules), a Monster Manual you literally have to replace because it's in many ways terrible, an online initiative that's crippled by a murder/suicide, and the introductory module being the Keep on the Shadowfell (probably worse than <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/tabletop-gaming/148566-example-worst-tsr-adventure-module-s-ever-published.html" target="_blank">The Forest Oracle</a>), and follow that up by pissing off your magazine publisher and almost all the third party publishers it's not surprising it does comparatively badly. To add insult to injury, having your rules and most of your content for the edition you are trying to pull available legally for free in a way that can be reused is just asking for trouble.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or just not bothering with ENWorld or D&D forums, as is far more likely.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6057771, member: 87792"] Do you genuinely think there are any rules involved in 3.X? Or is it really a case of "Make things up as you go along and by the way we've sold you a set of rulebooks for no particular reason". Because that's what you appear to be arguing. You are yourself admitting that the rules of 3.5 as presented are not fit for purposeevery time you suggest house rules. I get aggressive when people [I]lie[/I] about 4e or assign to it things it doesn't have. Stop trying to define what it is when it is blatantly obvious you don't understand it From the person who defined 4e as Ikea - and then proceeded to snap together an Ikea-style silly combination for a PC this has a lot of irony. And the thunder? His roars which get answered by lightning? Worse and worse. Balanced against [I]what?[/I] A 3.X druid? A 3.X Monk? As the two are spectacularly badly balanced against each other, I'm going to say no you don't. And the carpentry concept is apparently another way of saying "This game sucks and the parts I was sold are not fit for purpose". Citation needed for new players. There's little 4e did right at the launch. The books were badly playtested, Keep on the Shadowfell might just be the worst introductory adventure ever, and the errata was needed because 4e was thrown together in a year after they threw out Orcus for being terrible. Oh, 4e players understand what 4e does well and what it does badly. It's superb where it rocks - but if you want fast combat or non-adventurers or a gritty game, find something else. Mostly 3.X? I'm seeing more of a 2e influence. Ebberon. Dark Sun. Most of the Gods. Most of the archetypes. If I listen to you, 3.X "works" by homebrewing to make up for its deficiencies. Admission of failure I see. You know you can't match it - and it's a clear way of doing something. No you don't. I get mad when people persistantly spread distortions. It started with Luce lumping 3e and 4e into one box when they are at very different ends of the spectrum. I also consider bad game design to have to fix the designer's oversights - the amount of time you have spent running down 3.X and saying "well you could homebrew" in this thread is quite spectacular. And I get why you are mad. 4e came out and yours was no longer the main game in town. Maybe it wasn't. It's trying to recreate GURPS Fantasy's design assumptions in a D&D framework. And the better you get it the worse it looks. And the less you know other games the better it looks. Now there's irony. I ignore 3.X until people start comparing it to 4e. Or worse yet trying to lump the two together. It didn't try as far as I know. And if you release a product a year early right into the teeth of a recession with improper playtesting, bad advertising, bad explanations, rules which don't work (the DMG skill challenge rules), a Monster Manual you literally have to replace because it's in many ways terrible, an online initiative that's crippled by a murder/suicide, and the introductory module being the Keep on the Shadowfell (probably worse than [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/tabletop-gaming/148566-example-worst-tsr-adventure-module-s-ever-published.html"]The Forest Oracle[/URL]), and follow that up by pissing off your magazine publisher and almost all the third party publishers it's not surprising it does comparatively badly. To add insult to injury, having your rules and most of your content for the edition you are trying to pull available legally for free in a way that can be reused is just asking for trouble. Or just not bothering with ENWorld or D&D forums, as is far more likely. [/QUOTE]
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