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<blockquote data-quote="Loonook" data-source="post: 6057782" data-attributes="member: 1861"><p>No... I'm admitting that, in the case you don't want Vancian magic? You have options. Let us try to find a version of 4e where Vancian casting exists. How about skill-based combat and casting? What about spell points?</p><p></p><p>Again. The flexibility of the OGL's material allows for the game to go in the path it wants.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've played 4e. I've even run a few 4e games, including a 20 session campaign. The game, short of deciding to paint those shells, is not really able to go outside of its very specific, very focused nature. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. As we all know Ikea allows you to take the handles off of this bureau, the shelving off of this bookcase, the structure of this TV stand...</p><p></p><p>I feel you're missing the point of a metaphor that everyone else is getting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When they activate that magic item or ability they howl. Not exactly rocket science.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that's like your opinion man.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh noes! Classes can do more or less than each other? Now, I understand that playing a character who doesn't automatically hurl fire or fart thunder as a fighter may be upsetting.</p><p></p><p>Some of us don't need that, and build functioning characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've been in five different states in the time since 4e came out. I usually check out FLGS as I go through, and when I settle down I check out all available shops within driving range to see which will be my home shop.</p><p></p><p>I have seen 2 4e games posted on bulletin boards. Now, that may just be anecdotal so let us go to something that is observable; a simple check of PBP forums. </p><p></p><p>Now, I went to Myth-Weavers because it has the easiest board to search, and keeps track of activity and involvement. Green-Yellow-Red system, pretty easy to figure out. I cut out Red because it just becomes more of a landslide, but here are the numbers:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep. Then they got a professional errata team to fix the glitches... Something not offered to 3.x. Which was then dealt with through... House rules? Like every other edition?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All of these things can be done with 3.x and perhaps an OGL sourcebook/simple house rules.</p><p></p><p>And it doesn't break the system.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So they got the stuff done right in previous editions. Got it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If I need to change something, I can change it without worrying about starting a roll of dominoes. Yes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Uhhuh.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When we disagree with a specific ruling, we can choose to alter it. The obsession with RAW is just silly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which is odd considering I'm one of three guys who I know who has run/runs 4e IRL, and about a dozen who run anything OTHER than 4e.</p><p></p><p>And, you know, the numbers.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Uhhuh. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And it gets in your craw. As I have explained, 4e does what it does... But it isn't anywhere near the coverage of 3x and the resultant d20 system.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you're blaming 4e's failures on the economy? It's odd that OD&D took off with that whole recession thing going on.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ahh, the 'take your ball and go home' style. Excellent! Like people who claim they will leave their country if X happens, it almost never happens. </p><p></p><p>And when it does no one mourns. </p><p></p><p>I see the beginnings of the neogrog forming. The obsession with beating on other 'impure' editions, the anger, the fear. Let it all flow.</p><p></p><p>But 4e has the most reverse grognards I have ever seen during my time in gaming... And I've seen quite a few major changes to other RPGs. You have your fun, but we don't find it intriguing... So you need to fight against it.</p><p></p><p>Again I used to be like you. Let it go.</p><p></p><p>Slainte,</p><p></p><p>-Loonook.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Loonook, post: 6057782, member: 1861"] No... I'm admitting that, in the case you don't want Vancian magic? You have options. Let us try to find a version of 4e where Vancian casting exists. How about skill-based combat and casting? What about spell points? Again. The flexibility of the OGL's material allows for the game to go in the path it wants. I've played 4e. I've even run a few 4e games, including a 20 session campaign. The game, short of deciding to paint those shells, is not really able to go outside of its very specific, very focused nature. Yes. As we all know Ikea allows you to take the handles off of this bureau, the shelving off of this bookcase, the structure of this TV stand... I feel you're missing the point of a metaphor that everyone else is getting. When they activate that magic item or ability they howl. Not exactly rocket science. And that's like your opinion man. Oh noes! Classes can do more or less than each other? Now, I understand that playing a character who doesn't automatically hurl fire or fart thunder as a fighter may be upsetting. Some of us don't need that, and build functioning characters. I've been in five different states in the time since 4e came out. I usually check out FLGS as I go through, and when I settle down I check out all available shops within driving range to see which will be my home shop. I have seen 2 4e games posted on bulletin boards. Now, that may just be anecdotal so let us go to something that is observable; a simple check of PBP forums. Now, I went to Myth-Weavers because it has the easiest board to search, and keeps track of activity and involvement. Green-Yellow-Red system, pretty easy to figure out. I cut out Red because it just becomes more of a landslide, but here are the numbers: Yep. Then they got a professional errata team to fix the glitches... Something not offered to 3.x. Which was then dealt with through... House rules? Like every other edition? All of these things can be done with 3.x and perhaps an OGL sourcebook/simple house rules. And it doesn't break the system. So they got the stuff done right in previous editions. Got it. If I need to change something, I can change it without worrying about starting a roll of dominoes. Yes. Uhhuh. When we disagree with a specific ruling, we can choose to alter it. The obsession with RAW is just silly. Which is odd considering I'm one of three guys who I know who has run/runs 4e IRL, and about a dozen who run anything OTHER than 4e. And, you know, the numbers. Uhhuh. And it gets in your craw. As I have explained, 4e does what it does... But it isn't anywhere near the coverage of 3x and the resultant d20 system. So you're blaming 4e's failures on the economy? It's odd that OD&D took off with that whole recession thing going on. Ahh, the 'take your ball and go home' style. Excellent! Like people who claim they will leave their country if X happens, it almost never happens. And when it does no one mourns. I see the beginnings of the neogrog forming. The obsession with beating on other 'impure' editions, the anger, the fear. Let it all flow. But 4e has the most reverse grognards I have ever seen during my time in gaming... And I've seen quite a few major changes to other RPGs. You have your fun, but we don't find it intriguing... So you need to fight against it. Again I used to be like you. Let it go. Slainte, -Loonook. [/QUOTE]
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