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<blockquote data-quote="Ainamacar" data-source="post: 5903010" data-attributes="member: 70709"><p>The prose style and the almost bullet-point style of 4e both have advantages, and I'd like to see each play to their strengths.</p><p></p><p>The thing I like about the almost clinical 4e-style is that it is great for gaining an at-a-glance executive summary of what something is about. Both new and well-versed readers can benefit from that, the former primarily because it provides a simple structure on which to hang all other relevant information, and the latter because that most important information is a great shortcut for reference purposes.</p><p></p><p>The thing I like most about using prose is that it is often easier to provide an explicit link between the rules as they are generally intended to be used (i.e. the executive summary) and the fiction. I find this very beneficial to immersion, as clearly do many others in the thread. It also tends to embrace the rules as rules suggestions, and can give enough detail to help the DM consistently adjudicate the aspects which are too small to be worth a full rules treatment. It becomes, in effect, a hinting mechanism for both the DM and player. This last point is important because no matter how cleanly presented the basic rules are, such situations will arise unless one is willing to hand-wave a fair number of potentially jarring outcomes or (less often) accept the rules as the setting's physics.</p><p></p><p>That being the case, I think I'd want to at least explore a presentation with a very concise sidebar that captures the most basic information like a 4e power or the attributes of a 3e spell. Then I'd have a prose description of what is happening that is set much more within the fiction of the game, relying as much as possible on the sidebar to avoid a repetition of information, and also providing the hinting I mentioned earlier. To help marry these elements together I would make fairly strong use of 4e-like keywords, along with a mechanism to clearly delineate when a single effect has subparts which are one keyword but not the other.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps more radically, I'd want to try to format them in such a way that one could almost modularize the rules presentation to better fit the different preferences found in this thread. In one module the sidebar would be the principle expression of the rules, with the prose understood primarily as useful for corner cases or difficult calls. This would be a "rules-first" playstyle, where what happens is usually more important than how it happens. The second module would place the prose in equal weight with the sidebar, so that the emphasis is on what is going on in the fictional world and then interpreting through the lens of the rules.</p><p></p><p>Another interesting possibility might be to provide multiple prose sections that represent different "implementations" of something like a spell. For example, a spell like Gust of Wind could be very similar to a spell like Blast of Force, identical in its first-order effects but with distinct second-order interactions. The people who reflavor freely in 4e could continue to do so, while those who want to see additional impact from their reflavorings would have a much clearer structure for doing so, and for balancing their changes with the first version of the spell.</p><p></p><p>This idea might not work if the separation I'm suggesting simply can't be be done elegantly, or if it places too great a burden on the developer to essentially make sure the rules work under two different emphases. Still, let me try to present the sleep spell in something like this method. This is similar to what [MENTION=607]Klaus[/MENTION] suggested, and I'm borrowing some of his ideas because I liked them.</p><p></p><p>(The keywords after the semicolon might denote those for the "vanilla" version of the spell, while those before it might be the ones common to all versions. The fact that the sleep kicks in at the end of the target's next turn is obviously a 4e-like save or die moment, but I like it much more than kicking in after the first failed save because that led to weird situations where granting an extra save and failing turned out to be worse than not getting that extra save at all. The asterisk denotes that one could apply that improvement to the spell multiple times.)</p><p></p><p>Here are various versions of the spell. As I see it, each version has its own sub-name and keywords. Other changes to the basic form of the spell (which should be very minimal) can also be given. This is also a good place for spell improvements which specifically relate to given details.</p><p>♪ Mr. Sandman... ♪</p><p>This might be a bard spell, or appropriate for certain types of clerics.</p><p>Necromancers, evil enchanters, and several deities might enjoy this version. Maybe even shadow druids. It introduces an attack against a new defense score, but I don't think it's different enough to be worth a completely separate effect.</p><p>Perfect for druids, clerics of nature deities, and maybe even some wizards (especially Dark Sun preservers.) This variant moves a bit further from the base by attacking a different defense, but also making up for the limitation of being on the ground in natural terrain by essentially granting a turn of immobilization rather than slowed.</p><p>By having a single base effect one can effectively generate a whole bunch of spells that work basically the same way, but mesh with a host of different themes and can be expanded upon in unique ways. DMs that don't want to fuss with all the extra stuff can pretty much just run with the base spell, and reflavor as necessary. If they want to expand upon the spell in a specific instance several variants will likely be on the same page as the sleep spell proper. Electronic character sheets can do all the necessary substitutions, whether the full-text or just a summary is required. Finally, by presenting several variants side-by-side, homebrewers may find it much easier to get an idea of what the designer's thought was a good variability for the different versions of a spell.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ainamacar, post: 5903010, member: 70709"] The prose style and the almost bullet-point style of 4e both have advantages, and I'd like to see each play to their strengths. The thing I like about the almost clinical 4e-style is that it is great for gaining an at-a-glance executive summary of what something is about. Both new and well-versed readers can benefit from that, the former primarily because it provides a simple structure on which to hang all other relevant information, and the latter because that most important information is a great shortcut for reference purposes. The thing I like most about using prose is that it is often easier to provide an explicit link between the rules as they are generally intended to be used (i.e. the executive summary) and the fiction. I find this very beneficial to immersion, as clearly do many others in the thread. It also tends to embrace the rules as rules suggestions, and can give enough detail to help the DM consistently adjudicate the aspects which are too small to be worth a full rules treatment. It becomes, in effect, a hinting mechanism for both the DM and player. This last point is important because no matter how cleanly presented the basic rules are, such situations will arise unless one is willing to hand-wave a fair number of potentially jarring outcomes or (less often) accept the rules as the setting's physics. That being the case, I think I'd want to at least explore a presentation with a very concise sidebar that captures the most basic information like a 4e power or the attributes of a 3e spell. Then I'd have a prose description of what is happening that is set much more within the fiction of the game, relying as much as possible on the sidebar to avoid a repetition of information, and also providing the hinting I mentioned earlier. To help marry these elements together I would make fairly strong use of 4e-like keywords, along with a mechanism to clearly delineate when a single effect has subparts which are one keyword but not the other. Perhaps more radically, I'd want to try to format them in such a way that one could almost modularize the rules presentation to better fit the different preferences found in this thread. In one module the sidebar would be the principle expression of the rules, with the prose understood primarily as useful for corner cases or difficult calls. This would be a "rules-first" playstyle, where what happens is usually more important than how it happens. The second module would place the prose in equal weight with the sidebar, so that the emphasis is on what is going on in the fictional world and then interpreting through the lens of the rules. Another interesting possibility might be to provide multiple prose sections that represent different "implementations" of something like a spell. For example, a spell like Gust of Wind could be very similar to a spell like Blast of Force, identical in its first-order effects but with distinct second-order interactions. The people who reflavor freely in 4e could continue to do so, while those who want to see additional impact from their reflavorings would have a much clearer structure for doing so, and for balancing their changes with the first version of the spell. This idea might not work if the separation I'm suggesting simply can't be be done elegantly, or if it places too great a burden on the developer to essentially make sure the rules work under two different emphases. Still, let me try to present the sleep spell in something like this method. This is similar to what [MENTION=607]Klaus[/MENTION] suggested, and I'm borrowing some of his ideas because I liked them. (The keywords after the semicolon might denote those for the "vanilla" version of the spell, while those before it might be the ones common to all versions. The fact that the sleep kicks in at the end of the target's next turn is obviously a 4e-like save or die moment, but I like it much more than kicking in after the first failed save because that led to weird situations where granting an extra save and failing turned out to be worse than not getting that extra save at all. The asterisk denotes that one could apply that improvement to the spell multiple times.) Here are various versions of the spell. As I see it, each version has its own sub-name and keywords. Other changes to the basic form of the spell (which should be very minimal) can also be given. This is also a good place for spell improvements which specifically relate to given details. ♪ Mr. Sandman... ♪ This might be a bard spell, or appropriate for certain types of clerics. Necromancers, evil enchanters, and several deities might enjoy this version. Maybe even shadow druids. It introduces an attack against a new defense score, but I don't think it's different enough to be worth a completely separate effect. Perfect for druids, clerics of nature deities, and maybe even some wizards (especially Dark Sun preservers.) This variant moves a bit further from the base by attacking a different defense, but also making up for the limitation of being on the ground in natural terrain by essentially granting a turn of immobilization rather than slowed. By having a single base effect one can effectively generate a whole bunch of spells that work basically the same way, but mesh with a host of different themes and can be expanded upon in unique ways. DMs that don't want to fuss with all the extra stuff can pretty much just run with the base spell, and reflavor as necessary. If they want to expand upon the spell in a specific instance several variants will likely be on the same page as the sleep spell proper. Electronic character sheets can do all the necessary substitutions, whether the full-text or just a summary is required. Finally, by presenting several variants side-by-side, homebrewers may find it much easier to get an idea of what the designer's thought was a good variability for the different versions of a spell. [/QUOTE]
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